Outlawing Plastic Bags?

I heard in the news last night that someone in Honolulu is proposing the
elimination of plastic bags. Don't know exactly what she was
proposting, so
I thought I would ask those who frequent this newsgroup what they
know of
the proposal. Is she suggesting that ALL plastic bags be forbidden,
or just
restricting the use of plastic bags in certain stores....like I
gather from
the news, those that food markets distribute. And if it is only food
markets, is it all food markets, or selected food markets?

"Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.> wrote in message
news:1195106705-sch@news.lava.net...
>
> I heard in the news last night that someone in Honolulu is proposing the
> elimination of plastic bags. Don't know exactly what she was proposting,
> so
> I thought I would ask those who frequent this newsgroup what they know of
> the proposal. Is she suggesting that ALL plastic bags be forbidden, or
> just
> restricting the use of plastic bags in certain stores....like I gather
> from
> the news, those that food markets distribute. And if it is only food
> markets, is it all food markets, or selected food markets?
>

The proposal is to ban all plastic bags that are not biodegradable. Plastic
bags can takes hundreds of years to weather and degrade, and they put
harmful substances into the soil. I think it is a valid proposal.

Honu

"Hertz Donut" <somewhere@outthere.net> wrote in message
news:1195143002-sch@news.lava.net...
>
>
> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.> wrote in message
> news:1195106705-sch@news.lava.net...
>>
>> I heard in the news last night that someone in Honolulu is proposing the
>> elimination of plastic bags. Don't know exactly what she was
>> proposting,
>> so
>> I thought I would ask those who frequent this newsgroup what they know
>> of
>> the proposal. Is she suggesting that ALL plastic bags be forbidden, or
>> just
>> restricting the use of plastic bags in certain stores....like I gather
>> from
>> the news, those that food markets distribute. And if it is only food
>> markets, is it all food markets, or selected food markets?
>>
>
> The proposal is to ban all plastic bags that are not biodegradable.
> Plastic
> bags can takes hundreds of years to weather and degrade, and they put
> harmful substances into the soil. I think it is a valid proposal.
>
I asked about the potential impact on shppers, I did nto aske about the
merits of the argument.

"Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.> wrote in message
news:1195162803-sch@news.lava.net...
>
>
> "Hertz Donut" <somewhere@outthere.net> wrote in message
> news:1195143002-sch@news.lava.net...
>>
>>
>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.> wrote in message
>> news:1195106705-sch@news.lava.net...
>>>
>>> I heard in the news last night that someone in Honolulu is
>>> proposing the
>>> elimination of plastic bags. Don't know exactly what she was
>>> proposting,
>>> so
>>> I thought I would ask those who frequent this newsgroup what
>>> they know
>>> of
>>> the proposal. Is she suggesting that ALL plastic bags be
>>> forbidden, or
>>> just
>>> restricting the use of plastic bags in certain stores....like I
>>> gather
>>> from
>>> the news, those that food markets distribute. And if it is only
>>> food
>>> markets, is it all food markets, or selected food markets?
>>>
>>
>> The proposal is to ban all plastic bags that are not biodegradable.
>> Plastic
>> bags can takes hundreds of years to weather and degrade, and they put
>> harmful substances into the soil. I think it is a valid proposal.
>>
> I asked about the potential impact on shppers, I did nto aske about
> the
> merits of the argument.
>

The impact would be obvious...the cost of biodegradable plastic bags
would
be passed on to consumers in the form of higher priced goods. Paper
would
be an option some locations, or like Longs and Foodland are doing,
offering
discounts for using re-useable grocery bags.


The cost of biodegradable plastic bags are about 3 to four times the
cost of
non-biodegradable bags.

Honu

"Hertz Donut" <somewhere@outthere.net> wrote in message
news:1195194300-sch@news.lava.net...
>
>
> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.> wrote in message
> news:1195162803-sch@news.lava.net...
>>
>>
>> "Hertz Donut" <somewhere@outthere.net> wrote in message
>> news:1195143002-sch@news.lava.net...
>>>
>>>
>>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.> wrote in message
>>> news:1195106705-sch@news.lava.net...
>>>>
>>>> I heard in the news last night that someone in Honolulu is
>>>> proposing the
>>>> elimination of plastic bags. Don't know exactly what she was
>>>> proposting,
>>>> so
>>>> I thought I would ask those who frequent this newsgroup what
>>>> they know
>>>> of
>>>> the proposal. Is she suggesting that ALL plastic bags be
>>>> forbidden, or
>>>> just
>>>> restricting the use of plastic bags in certain stores....like I
>>>> gather
>>>> from
>>>> the news, those that food markets distribute. And if it is only
>>>> food
>>>> markets, is it all food markets, or selected food markets?
>>>>
>>>
>>> The proposal is to ban all plastic bags that are not biodegradable.
>>> Plastic
>>> bags can takes hundreds of years to weather and degrade, and they put
>>> harmful substances into the soil. I think it is a valid proposal.
>>>
>> I asked about the potential impact on shppers, I did nto aske about
>> the
>> merits of the argument.
>>
>
> The impact would be obvious...the cost of biodegradable plastic bags
> would
> be passed on to consumers in the form of higher priced goods. Paper
> would
> be an option some locations, or like Longs and Foodland are doing,
> offering
> discounts for using re-useable grocery bags.
>
>
> The cost of biodegradable plastic bags are about 3 to four times the
> cost of
> non-biodegradable bags.
>
That part I understand. But for instance, many times when we shop for food,
it requires more than one plastic bag. What will happen when you no longer
can use plastic bags. I remember in the old days, when they used paper
bags, and we used to come out of the market with lots of paper bags, which
also get thrown away....of course they are biodigradable. Is the law going
to allow food markets to use paper bags?

"Hertz Donut" <somewhere@outthere.net> wrote in message
news:1195269600-sch@news.lava.net...
>
>
> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.> wrote in message
> news:1195243802-sch@news.lava.net...
>>
>
> According to what I have read, yes. Stores would be able to offer
> anything
> except the current non-biodegradable plastic. I would imagine that
> paper
> would not be a wise choice either, as most folks throw them away
> instead of
> recycling them.
>
> I thing the re-useable Cotton or nylon bags are best...customers
> would have
> to bring them when they shop, which many will see as too much of a
> "bother",
> but it would save everyone money in the long run.
>
Which is exactly my point. The cotton or nylon bags are fine when you only
have one bags worth of shopping to buy. It does not work worth a dam, when
you buy much more than one bags worth of groceries. And what happens when
you bring one or two bags with you, and you end up buying more than the bags
will carry?

In article <1195422900-sch@news.lava.net> [18 Nov 07]
Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.> wrote:

> Which is exactly my point. The cotton or nylon bags are fine when
> you only have one bags worth of shopping to buy. It does not work
> worth a dam, when you buy much more than one bags worth of
> groceries. And what happens when you bring one or two bags with
> you, and you end up buying more than the bags will carry?

Huh?

Normally you roughly know how much you'll need to buy.
So you bring that number of cotton bags.

Bring one or two extra and you're on the safe side.
What exactly is sooo difficult?

Here in Europe plastic bags are *not* outlawed.
However customers *must* pay for them (20 cent or so per bag).

So everyone just brings their cotton bags or baskets.

Robinton

--
Nichtstun ist besser als mit viel Muehe nichts schaffen. (Laotse)

"Soeren Ziehe" <robinton@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:1197749700-sch@news.lava.net...
>
> In article <1195422900-sch@news.lava.net> [18 Nov 07]
> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.> wrote:
>
>> Which is exactly my point. The cotton or nylon bags are fine when
>> you only have one bags worth of shopping to buy. It does not work
>> worth a dam, when you buy much more than one bags worth of
>> groceries. And what happens when you bring one or two bags with
>> you, and you end up buying more than the bags will carry?
>
> Huh?
>
> Normally you roughly know how much you'll need to buy.
> So you bring that number of cotton bags.
>
> Bring one or two extra and you're on the safe side.
> What exactly is sooo difficult?

Because not EVERYONE, and I would suspect very few people, actually
only buy
what they went to the market to buy. Let me put it another way. Let
us say
you went to the market with your recommended three bags. You end up
with
more than three bags worth of goods....then what would happen? Do
you just
decide not to buy the "overlfow"? And what happens when after you go
to the
market, you think of more things you need, that is more than the bags
you
brought with you? What would you do then? Perhaps decide not to
"buy" the
extra items, and perhaps, you then make another trip to the market a
day or
two later....a trip that eats up more gasoline that you did not have to
make? What is my point? My point is, when you try to solve one
problem,
you just may be creating another problem. And the "other" problem
may be
far worst that the problem you are trying to solve. One more
thought, are
you saying that EVERYONE who goes to the market even makes a list of the
things they will buy and will only buy those items on the list?
>
> Here in Europe plastic bags are *not* outlawed.
> However customers *must* pay for them (20 cent or so per bag).
>
> So everyone just brings their cotton bags or baskets.
>
>

Question. In Europe, where does the average food buyer buy their
food? Do
they have the poliferation of super markets that the US has?

This seems a bit silly. Here in San Francisco we have outlawed plastic
(but
not paper) bags. We have also outlawed styrofoam containers and coffee
cups. And you, now the world really does go on! Starbucks coffee is just
as bad in a paper cup as in a styrofome one; Chinese take out restaurants
serve the same food in paper cartons as they used to in styrofoam ones. Is
the proposal there to outlaw paper as well as plastic bags?

And believe it or not, Europe is not in the third world. They actually
have
supermarkets there--even Safeway! And as for taking the right number of
cotton bags to the store, most people seem to have more control over their
buying habits than you seem to have. If you buy more than you have room
for
in your bags, the store will probably sell you an additional bag. Just
what
is the "other problem" that is created here that is worse than filling the
landfill with plastic?

"Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.> wrote in message
news:1197766500-sch@news.lava.net...
>
>
> "Soeren Ziehe" <robinton@gmx.de> wrote in message
> news:1197749700-sch@news.lava.net...
>>
>> In article <1195422900-sch@news.lava.net> [18 Nov 07]
>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.> wrote:
>>
>>> Which is exactly my point. The cotton or nylon bags are fine when
>>> you only have one bags worth of shopping to buy. It does not work
>>> worth a dam, when you buy much more than one bags worth of
>>> groceries. And what happens when you bring one or two bags with
>>> you, and you end up buying more than the bags will carry?
>>
>> Huh?
>>
>> Normally you roughly know how much you'll need to buy.
>> So you bring that number of cotton bags.
>>
>> Bring one or two extra and you're on the safe side.
>> What exactly is sooo difficult?
>
> Because not EVERYONE, and I would suspect very few people, actually only
> buy
> what they went to the market to buy. Let me put it another way. Let us
> say
> you went to the market with your recommended three bags. You end up with
> more than three bags worth of goods....then what would happen? Do you
> just
> decide not to buy the "overlfow"? And what happens when after you go to
> the
> market, you think of more things you need, that is more than the bags you
> brought with you? What would you do then? Perhaps decide not to "buy"
> the
> extra items, and perhaps, you then make another trip to the market a day
> or
> two later....a trip that eats up more gasoline that you did not have to
> make? What is my point? My point is, when you try to solve one problem,
> you just may be creating another problem. And the "other" problem may be
> far worst that the problem you are trying to solve. One more thought,
> are
> you saying that EVERYONE who goes to the market even makes a list of the
> things they will buy and will only buy those items on the list?
>>
>> Here in Europe plastic bags are *not* outlawed.
>> However customers *must* pay for them (20 cent or so per bag).
>>
>> So everyone just brings their cotton bags or baskets.
>>
>>
>
> Question. In Europe, where does the average food buyer buy their food?
> Do
> they have the poliferation of super markets that the US has?
>

"Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.> wrote in message
news:1197766500-sch@news.lava.net...
>
>
> "Soeren Ziehe" <robinton@gmx.de> wrote in message
> news:1197749700-sch@news.lava.net...
>>
>> In article <1195422900-sch@news.lava.net> [18 Nov 07]
>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.> wrote:
>>
>>> Which is exactly my point. The cotton or nylon bags are fine when
>>>

Your entire argument is pointless. Simply have one or two more gags than
you expect to need, and you'll be fine. It is done every day in many parts
of the world.

It certainly is food that very few have such a myopic, lazy view of using
the fiber bags.



Honu