SuperFerry ORDERED to stop serving Maui

On Thu, 30 Aug 2007, Niu-boy wrote:

> the law is the law, but the law isn't always just nor
> is it always right. I don't understand why people
> have to be dragged kicking and screaming into
> adopting change when it is plain that it will be for
> the betterment of all residents of Hawaii. Hawaii
> has needed a service like the ferry for decades. It
> would be interesting to follow the money and see if
> the activists and protesters are receiving support
> from any of the ferry's competition, namely the
> airlines and car rental agencies who stand to be the
> big losers in this deal. That would be the scandal
> of the century, in my opinion. Think about it. What
> would you do if you were a struggling Inter-Island
> air carrier or car rental business and now this ferry
> arrives on the scene and cuts into your profits? If
> it were me I'd be working out every angle to try to
> stop it.

Quite true. It's hard to tell if special interests are
a heavy influence on these protests. Is the EIS so
important that everything must stop for that?

I don't really see the need for a ferry except that it
makes it easier for the poor to move more freely within
the state. They can also compete for jobs in the outer
islands with the ferry. The risk of the spread of
invasive species is probably very great unless unusual
precautions are taken before allowing cars aboard the
ferry.

"Alvin E. Toda" <aet@lava.net> wrote in message
news:1188514200-sch@news.lava.net...
>
> On Thu, 30 Aug 2007, Niu-boy wrote:
>
>> the law is the law, but the law isn't always just nor
>> is it always right. I don't understand why people
>> have to be dragged kicking and screaming into
>> adopting change when it is plain that it will be for
>> the betterment of all residents of Hawaii. Hawaii
>> has needed a service like the ferry for decades. It
>> would be interesting to follow the money and see if
>> the activists and protesters are receiving support
>> from any of the ferry's competition, namely the
>> airlines and car rental agencies who stand to be the
>> big losers in this deal. That would be the scandal
>> of the century, in my opinion. Think about it. What
>> would you do if you were a struggling Inter-Island
>> air carrier or car rental business and now this ferry
>> arrives on the scene and cuts into your profits? If
>> it were me I'd be working out every angle to try to
>> stop it.
>
> Quite true. It's hard to tell if special interests are
> a heavy influence on these protests. Is the EIS so
> important that everything must stop for that?
>
> I don't really see the need for a ferry except that it
> makes it easier for the poor to move more freely within
> the state. They can also compete for jobs in the outer
> islands with the ferry. The risk of the spread of
> invasive species is probably very great unless unusual
> precautions are taken before allowing cars aboard the
> ferry.
>

We are looking forward to the day when the ferry starts regular service.
One of my brothers has already indicated that he will come to visit
us when
ferry service starts, something he has never done (I have gone to see
them
on Oahu, but he has not come to Maui before). My wife and I plan to
go to
Honolulu on the ferry (assuming my wife is willing to take the risk of
getting sea sick....she gets sea sick easily), taking our car with
us, to
do (1) shop for things we cannot readily get on Maui, (2) eat some great
chinese food, which you folks living in Honolulu get, but us folks on
Maui
don't, (3) see my brothers and if possible some cousins.

"Alvin E. Toda" <aet@lava.net> wrote in message
news:1188514200-sch@news.lava.net...
> Quite true. It's hard to tell if special interests are
> a heavy influence on these protests. Is the EIS so
> important that everything must stop for that?
>
Many of the protesters on Kauai at Nawiliwili were surfers, or at least
they were on surfboards, blocking the ferry's arrival on its $5 run. If
they're worried about the impact on the surf I can assure them that they
will be some pretty good waves as the ferry arrives at and depart the
harbor. We recently took the CAT ferry from Yarmouth, Nova Scotia to
Portland, ME and that thing got up to speed pretty quickly while still
in Yarmouth Harbor. There must have been 4' waves breaking on the shore
as we left the mouth of the harbor. The water jets on that ferry crank
out enough water in 30 seconds to fill and Olympic size swimming pool.
The Hawaii ferry is slightly larger.

On Aug 30, 5:50 pm, "Alvin E. Toda" <a...@lava.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Aug 2007, Niu-boy wrote:
>> the law is the law, but the law isn't always just nor
>> is it always right. I don't understand why people
>> have to be dragged kicking and screaming into
>> adopting change when it is plain that it will be for
>> the betterment of all residents of Hawaii. Hawaii
>> has needed a service like the ferry for decades. It
>> would be interesting to follow the money and see if
>> the activists and protesters are receiving support
>> from any of the ferry's competition, namely the
>> airlines and car rental agencies who stand to be the
>> big losers in this deal. That would be the scandal
>> of the century, in my opinion. Think about it. What
>> would you do if you were a struggling Inter-Island
>> air carrier or car rental business and now this ferry
>> arrives on the scene and cuts into your profits? If
>> it were me I'd be working out every angle to try to
>> stop it.
>
> Quite true. It's hard to tell if special interests are
> a heavy influence on these protests. Is the EIS so
> important that everything must stop for that?
>
> I don't really see the need for a ferry except that it
> makes it easier for the poor to move more freely within
> the state. They can also compete for jobs in the outer
> islands with the ferry. The risk of the spread of
> invasive species is probably very great unless unusual
> precautions are taken before allowing cars aboard the
> ferry.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

At about $250 to get around... it's cheaper by plane and they aren't
doing that so why would a higher cost bring more?

<AmilRose@> wrote in message news:1188620702-
sch@news.lava.net...
>

>
> At about $250 to get around... it's cheaper by plane and they aren't
> doing that so why would a higher cost bring more?
>

What does the $250 amount represent? Certainly not the cost of a
ticket?

<AmilRose@> wrote in message news:1188620700-
sch@news.lava.net...
>
> The excuses of whales being in danger and the like are so lame... but
> all in all... just follow the dollars... you are so right!
>
>

I just thought of a couple of things concerning whales. Ordinary
citizens
who use power boats which can go very fast, are more likely to get
too close
to a whale, and they are out there all the time. Those recreational
people
who use jet skis, cannot possibly have the ability to know that they
are too
close to a whale it seems to me. Those big lumbering cruise ships
cannot
turn fast enough to avoid a whale that swims directly in front of
them, it
seems to me. I wonder how many other cases there are, where whales
are in
danger of being run over each and every day of the week, when they
are in
Hawaiian waters.

"Niu-boy" <kenbank@> wrote in message
news:1188752401-sch@news.lava.net...
>
> On Sep 1, 3:35 pm, "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj...@hawaii.> wrote:
>> <AmilR...@> wrote in message news:1188620700-
>>
>> s...@news.lava.net...
>>
>>
>>
>>> The excuses of whales being in danger and the like are so lame...
>>> but
>>> all in all... just follow the dollars... you are so right!
>>
>> I just thought of a couple of things concerning whales. Ordinary
>> citizens
>> who use power boats which can go very fast, are more likely to get
>> too close
>> to a whale, and they are out there all the time. Those recreational
>> people
>> who use jet skis, cannot possibly have the ability to know that they
>> are too
>> close to a whale it seems to me. Those big lumbering cruise ships
>> cannot
>> turn fast enough to avoid a whale that swims directly in front of
>> them, it
>> seems to me. I wonder how many other cases there are, where whales
>> are in
>> danger of being run over each and every day of the week, when they
>> are in
>> Hawaiian waters.
>
> You raise some very good points. I would say that whales are in much
> greater danger from the cuts and bruises they might receive from from
> the hulls and propellers of pleasure craft piloted by not-so-salty
> weekend sailors who due to inexperience or sheer ignorance venture too
> close to surfacing pods. You have to remember, the whales and other
> sea creatures are in their natural element and are highly maneuverable
> in it. The large cargo ships are lumbering hulks and are easily
> avoided by any but a sick or already injured animal. The super ferry
> with it's high powered propulsion system probably makes a lot of noise
> underwater which will certainly alert sea creatures of its location
> and course. Also, if the ferry employs some kind of forward looking
> radar and sonar to scan the sea ahead for obstacles that might
> endanger the speeding craft they should also be able to identify pods
> of whales and avoid them in the same way airliners locate and avoid
> storm systems in atmosphere. I know from my boating experiences on
> lakes and rivers in California, that when you are running at speed you
> need to always be on the lookout for dangerous objects floating on or
> submerged in the water ahead. Any one who has ever hit a snag or
> stump or collided with a piece of floating junk in a speeding boat
> will testify to the importance of this.
>
Then you know from experience that when you are going at top speed,
you can
"look" all you want, you can still hit something that is floating or
just
under the water line.

On Sun, 2 Sep 2007, Niu-boy wrote:

> On Aug 31, 9:25 pm, AmilR...@ wrote:

>> At about $250 to get around... it's cheaper by plane
>> and they aren't doing that so why would a higher
>> cost bring more?
>
> Well, airfare is only part of the cost of inter
> island travel. Add in the cost of transportation,

> list goes on. I don't know how the ferry will be
> charging for passage, but if they charge by the
> vehicle which is how the Canadian ferries do it, then
> $250 for a family of four to go from O'ahu to Hilo or
> Kona might be an affordable and attractive
> alternative to air travel. I also see a rise in the
> number of RVs and travel trailers that would begin to
> be a feasible option for inter-island travellers.
> These types of vehicles are common on the mainland,
> but are rare in Hawaii, mainly due to the fact that
> there really isn't a reason to have one because the
> island is so small. I can see people starting to
> want RVs to take trips to the outer islands and not
> have to pay for rental cars and hotels. Now there's
> a thought.

Yes. This kind of comparison should be more broad
seeing that the ferry is a different mode of
transportation. Hope the car rental agencies and
cheaper hotels in the outer islands can adjust to this
new competition.

On Fri, 31 Aug 2007, Niu-boy wrote:

> small businesses to operate and expand in the
> inter-island market without having to have a physical
> presence on every island where they wish to do
> business. This is a boon to contractors and tradesmen
> who now have to ship their tools, equipment and
> materials by barge when they work off-island. Now
> they will be able to load up the truck and drive to
> the job. The ferry means an end to much of the power
> of the big players to limit the marketplace. More
> choice and competition in a market is always good for
> the consumers and for the market.

Competition is important to provide low cost services
and products within the state.

> Tell me what specifically increases the risk of
> transferring invasive species by people and cargo
> being brought on a ferry as opposed to the existing
> methods of transport? If this is such a concern,

For example, there are some small ants that have gotten
establish in some papaya (?) fields on the big island.
Farmers cannot spray on the ants and expect to harvest
the fruit, so they have tried without success to force
low paid workers to endure the ant bites to harvest the
fruit. Probably dipping car wheels before entering the
ferry in an insecticide will prevent the ants from
spreading.

There are other issues. For example, IIRC farmers are
prohibited from moving their produce to another island
with the ferry.