Another Tax Hike

Excise tax on everything from food to cars will soon increase 0.5 percent on
Oahu to fund a multibillion dollar rail project. Officials estimate the tax
hike could cost a family of four about $450 a year.....

This of course hits the poor the hardest.

On Tue, 12 Dec 2006, Jerry Okamura wrote:

> Excise tax on everything from food to cars will soon
> increase 0.5 percent on Oahu to fund a multibillion
> dollar rail project. Officials estimate the tax hike
> could cost a family of four about $450 a year.....
>
> This of course hits the poor the hardest.

The poor can expect tax credits... But we can expect
that for every $450 about 1/3, or about $150 will also
be paid by the tourist. This is a very efficient tax at
exporting costs of our infrastructure. That's the basis
of our system of GET taxes.

Jerry Okamura wrote:
> Excise tax on everything from food to cars will soon increase 0.5 percent on
> Oahu to fund a multibillion dollar rail project. Officials estimate the tax
> hike could cost a family of four about $450 a year.....

At least Honolulu county couldn't tax other counties for this
boondoggle.

> This of course hits the poor the hardest.

Sales taxes are inherently regressive.

--- Aka

On Thu, 14 Dec 2006, Aka wrote:

>
> Jerry Okamura wrote:
>> Excise tax on everything from food to cars will soon
>> increase 0.5 percent on Oahu to fund a multibillion
>> dollar rail project. Officials estimate the tax
>> hike could cost a family of four about $450 a
>> year.....
>
> At least Honolulu county couldn't tax other counties
> for this boondoggle.

Actually, they are taxed if they do business in
Honolulu. And Honolulu companies aren't taxed the 1/2
point for outside sales. However, if their customers
come to Honolulu to pick up the stuff, then the outside
island customers are taxed. It's getting complicated.

Probably the worse thing is that Honolulu will have an
even larger population for the rail, and the traffic
will still be bad. Hopefully, energy will be cheap
enough to distill sea water by then. We may have a
population of about 4 million.

On Tue, 12 Dec 2006 05:20:17 -0000, "Jerry Okamura"
<okamuraj005@hawaii.> wrote:

>
> Excise tax on everything from food to cars will soon increase 0.5
percent on
> Oahu to fund a multibillion dollar rail project. Officials estimate
the tax
> hike could cost a family of four about $450 a year.....
>
> This of course hits the poor the hardest.

I was born on Oahu and there were no freeways. Over the decades it
has become a traffic snarling nightmare even to me.

We went to Europe this summer, rode the state supported trains in
Italy and France and made good use of the underground Tube in the UK.
They were awesome! ON TIME every time. The beautiful country side
sped by when we were on the faster trains. It was reasonable cost and
I was totally impressed.

I believe Oahu really needs the rail transit sytem and we've needed it
for years. Did you know many many decades ago Oahu had a train system
and eventually let the land go? The system was used as the Bus
system which I rode as a kid from Waipahu into town (Leeward Bus
System IIRC).

I really admire the guts of the Honolulu City Council to say yes. It
is so over due. It is just my own opinion but I think that the tenth
of a percent- excuse my math:) if my decimals are wrong-- is so
worthwhile. We all hate taxes but if we want our kids & grand kids to
have something superior, we have to pay for it now. I see no other
option.

Just my $.02 but I can't wait.

aloha,
beans
--smithfarms.com
farmers of pure kona
roast beans to kona to email

"Alvin E. Toda" <aet@lava.net> wrote in message
news:1166073300-sch@news.lava.net...
>
> On Tue, 12 Dec 2006, Jerry Okamura wrote:
>
>> Excise tax on everything from food to cars will soon
>> increase 0.5 percent on Oahu to fund a multibillion
>> dollar rail project. Officials estimate the tax hike
>> could cost a family of four about $450 a year.....
>>
>> This of course hits the poor the hardest.
>
> The poor can expect tax credits... But we can expect
> that for every $450 about 1/3, or about $150 will also
> be paid by the tourist. This is a very efficient tax at
> exporting costs of our infrastructure. That's the basis
> of our system of GET taxes.
>

What tax credit? And it does not matter who else is paying, what
matters is
the the "poor" are also getting hit hard...$450 for the poor family hits
them a whole lot harder than some tourist.

<beans@smithfarms.com> wrote in message news:1166223303-
sch@news.lava.net...
>
> On Tue, 12 Dec 2006 05:20:17 -0000, "Jerry Okamura"
> <okamuraj005@hawaii.> wrote:
>
>>
>> Excise tax on everything from food to cars will soon increase 0.5
> percent on
>> Oahu to fund a multibillion dollar rail project. Officials estimate
> the tax
>> hike could cost a family of four about $450 a year.....
>>
>> This of course hits the poor the hardest.
>
> I was born on Oahu and there were no freeways. Over the decades it
> has become a traffic snarling nightmare even to me.
>
> We went to Europe this summer, rode the state supported trains in
> Italy and France and made good use of the underground Tube in the UK.
> They were awesome! ON TIME every time. The beautiful country side
> sped by when we were on the faster trains. It was reasonable cost and
> I was totally impressed.
>
> I believe Oahu really needs the rail transit sytem and we've needed it
> for years. Did you know many many decades ago Oahu had a train system
> and eventually let the land go? The system was used as the Bus
> system which I rode as a kid from Waipahu into town (Leeward Bus
> System IIRC).
>
> I really admire the guts of the Honolulu City Council to say yes. It
> is so over due. It is just my own opinion but I think that the tenth
> of a percent- excuse my math:) if my decimals are wrong-- is so
> worthwhile. We all hate taxes but if we want our kids & grand kids to
> have something superior, we have to pay for it now. I see no other
> option.
>
> Just my $.02 but I can't wait.
>
The assumption it seems to me, when you build to solve the problem like
transportation, is that the population will continue to increase.
"If" the
population actually decreases and not increases, then you have just
spent a
whole lot of money to build something that "may" beomce unneeded.

On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 beans@smithfarms.com wrote:

> I was born on Oahu and there were no freeways. Over
> the decades it has become a traffic snarling
> nightmare even to me.
>
> We went to Europe this summer, rode the state
> supported trains in Italy and France and made good
> use of the underground Tube in the UK. They were
> awesome! ON TIME every time. The beautiful country
> side sped by when we were on the faster trains. It
> was reasonable cost and I was totally impressed.
>
> I believe Oahu really needs the rail transit sytem
> and we've needed it for years. Did you know many
> many decades ago Oahu had a train system and
> eventually let the land go? The system was used as
> the Bus system which I rode as a kid from Waipahu
> into town (Leeward Bus System IIRC).

I rode the same bus. About 2 hours to get to town from
Pearl City. The route ended at the old train station in
Iwilei accross Aala Park. Knew the family that owned
that system. They just never had the capital to expand
it to increase the ridership. Their competition was the
sampans from Aiea. Don't recall whether Waipahu had any
of those, but people from Pearl City just had the bus.
This was fine. At the time most lived near the bus
stop. Most people in the area worked at Pearl Harbor or
at the plantations, so the bus was mainly filled with
students who attended private schools in Honolulu.

I think that when TheBus system took over the Leeward
bus (and the Honolulu Rapid Transit from Weinberg)
system, the funds that the city used greatly expanded
the bus system to the Leeward area. Just in time too,
because employment in Honolulu greatly picked up.

> I really admire the guts of the Honolulu City Council
> to say yes. It is so over due. It is just my own
> opinion but I think that the tenth of a percent-
> excuse my math:) if my decimals are wrong-- is so
> worthwhile. We all hate taxes but if we want our
> kids & grand kids to have something superior, we have
> to pay for it now. I see no other option.

I would agree. This is a worthwhile investment which
will save the poor family a lot of money. Giving up a
car with its insurance, fuel, and repair costs would
save the poor family a lot of money. Drivers get
subsidized with roads. Shouldn't the non-drivers get
some benefits too?

"Alvin E. Toda" <aet@lava.net> wrote in message
news:1166241307-sch@news.lava.net...
>
>
> I would agree. This is a worthwhile investment which
> will save the poor family a lot of money. Giving up a
> car with its insurance, fuel, and repair costs would
> save the poor family a lot of money. Drivers get
> subsidized with roads. Shouldn't the non-drivers get
> some benefits too?
>

Only for those who are poor who will can take advantage of such a system,
and that only applies to the poor who live near the system, that will take
them to where they want to go. In the meantime, they are also the ones who
will have to pay for the system.

On Mon, 18 Dec 2006, Jerry Okamura wrote:

> "Alvin E. Toda" <aet@lava.net> wrote in message
> news:1166241307-sch@news.lava.net...
>>
>>
>> I would agree. This is a worthwhile investment
>> which will save the poor family a lot of money.
>> Giving up a car with its insurance, fuel, and
>> repair costs would save the poor family a lot of
>> money. Drivers get subsidized with roads. Shouldn't
>> the non-drivers get some benefits too?
>>
>
> Only for those who are poor who will can take
> advantage of such a system, and that only applies to
> the poor who live near the system, that will take
> them to where they want to go. In the meantime, they
> are also the ones who will have to pay for the
> system.

Everyone pays for the system including tourists. That's
what's so great about the GET: the expense is widely
distributed.

Actually, our geography on Oahu is perfect for rail
trasport because people are bunched up along a long
corridor from Waianae to Hawaii Kai. If the rail
stretched between those two ends, then perhaps about 90
of the Oahu population would be close enough to rail to
use it.