Another Tax Hike

On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 04:55:01 -0000, "Jerry Okamura"
<okamuraj005@hawaii.> wrote:

>
>
> "Alvin E. Toda" <aet@lava.net> wrote in message
> news:1166241307-sch@news.lava.net...
>>
>>
>> I would agree. This is a worthwhile investment which
>> will save the poor family a lot of money. Giving up a
>> car with its insurance, fuel, and repair costs would
>> save the poor family a lot of money. Drivers get
>> subsidized with roads. Shouldn't the non-drivers get
>> some benefits too?
>>
>
> Only for those who are poor who will can take advantage of such a
system,
> and that only applies to the poor who live near the system, that will
take
> them to where they want to go. In the meantime, they are also the
ones who
> will have to pay for the system.

When I was younger and when I was in college, I was very poor. Very. I
bought very few things. I always contemplate why people say the
burden will be on the poor- the tenth of a percent in this case--.
When you are poor, you buy very little.

Juts my $.02.

aloha,
beans
--smithfarms.com
farmers of pure kona
roast beans to kona to email

"Alvin E. Toda" <aet@lava.net> wrote in message
news:1166073300-sch@news.lava.net...
>
> On Tue, 12 Dec 2006, Jerry Okamura wrote:
>
>> Excise tax on everything from food to cars will soon
>> increase 0.5 percent on Oahu to fund a multibillion
>> dollar rail project. Officials estimate the tax hike
>> could cost a family of four about $450 a year.....
>>
>> This of course hits the poor the hardest.
>
> The poor can expect tax credits... But we can expect
> that for every $450 about 1/3, or about $150 will also
> be paid by the tourist. This is a very efficient tax at
> exporting costs of our infrastructure. That's the basis
> of our system of GET taxes.
>

Does it matter? The point I made still applies doesn't it? That is that
the poor are still going to be hit the hardest....

On Fri, 29 Dec 2006, Jerry Okamura wrote:

> "Alvin E. Toda" <aet@lava.net> wrote in message
> news:1166073300-sch@news.lava.net...
> >
> > On Tue, 12 Dec 2006, Jerry Okamura wrote:
> >
> >> Excise tax on everything from food to cars will
> >> soon increase 0.5 percent on Oahu to fund a
> >> multibillion dollar rail project. Officials
> >> estimate the tax hike could cost a family of four
> >> about $450 a year.....
> >>
> >> This of course hits the poor the hardest.
> >
> > The poor can expect tax credits... But we can
> > expect that for every $450 about 1/3, or about $150
> > will also be paid by the tourist. This is a very
> > efficient tax at exporting costs of our
> > infrastructure. That's the basis of our system of
> > GET taxes.
> >
>
> Does it matter? The point I made still applies
> doesn't it? That is that the poor are still going to
> be hit the hardest....

Do you mean percentage wise of their income-- that it
may be higher than the wealthy? In terms of actual
ammounts a lot depends on their living expenses. They
may spend nearly the same ammount as the wealthy. But
doesn't the point I mentioned that the tax credits they
get, which offset the GET, still apply as well? If the
credits are bigger, then they come out ahead.

"Alvin E. Toda" <aet@lava.net> wrote in message
news:1167629702-sch@news.lava.net...
>
> On Fri, 29 Dec 2006, Jerry Okamura wrote:
>

>> >
>>
>> Does it matter? The point I made still applies
>> doesn't it? That is that the poor are still going to
>> be hit the hardest....
>
> Do you mean percentage wise of their income-- that it
> may be higher than the wealthy? In terms of actual
> ammounts a lot depends on their living expenses. They
> may spend nearly the same ammount as the wealthy. But
> doesn't the point I mentioned that the tax credits they
> get, which offset the GET, still apply as well? If the
> credits are bigger, then they come out ahead.
>

I think you know what I mean. The rich can afford the added money taken
away from them, every dime that is taken away from those who are less
fortunate cannot be spent on things they need, so it hits them hardest.

On Mon, 1 Jan 2007, Jerry Okamura wrote:

> "Alvin E. Toda" <aet@lava.net> wrote in message
> news:1167629702-sch@news.lava.net...
> >
> > Do you mean percentage wise of their income-- that
> > it may be higher than the wealthy? In terms of
> > actual ammounts a lot depends on their living
> > expenses. They may spend nearly the same ammount as
> > the wealthy. But doesn't the point I mentioned that
> > the tax credits they get, which offset the GET,
> > still apply as well? If the credits are bigger,
> > then they come out ahead.
> >
>
> I think you know what I mean. The rich can afford
> the added money taken away from them, every dime that
> is taken away from those who are less fortunate
> cannot be spent on things they need, so it hits them
> hardest.

However, the rich don't get tax credits that the poor
get. Don't you need to consider this as well? Hawaii
gives more benefits to the poor in this state than it
takes away in taxes.

"Alvin E. Toda" <aet@lava.net> wrote in message
news:1167816901-sch@news.lava.net...
>
Hawaii
> gives more benefits to the poor in this state than it
> takes away in taxes.
>

Care to cite some data to back up your claim?

On Thu, 4 Jan 2007, Jerry Okamura wrote:

> "Alvin E. Toda" <aet@lava.net> wrote in message
> news:1167816901-sch@news.lava.net...

>> Hawaii gives more benefits to the poor in this state
>> than it takes away in taxes.
>>
>
> Care to cite some data to back up your claim?

I haven't seen any recent articles in the news. Have
you?

"Alvin E. Toda" <aet@lava.net> wrote in message
news:1168317609-sch@news.lava.net...
>

>
> Jerry aren't we concern with more than just state
> income taxes? What is the question? Isn't it something
> like this? "Does the State of Hawaii benefit the poor
> more than it takes from them"?

Okay, what is the answer to your question?
>
> I don't think that we are including the homeless here
> in this question. The news already reports that the
> homeless in Hawaii are treated badly by the govt.
> Luckily they have our good weather in their favor.

Who are the homeless? What percentage of them are long term homeless
and
what percentage are short term homeless? How long are they
homeless? What
percentage of them are families with children? What percentage of
them are
women with children? What percentage have a substance or mental health
problem? What is their level of education? Can you answer those very
simple questions?
>
> More specifically, what is the question? If someone
> were to check how much the poor get in general
> assistance, medical insurance, and rental supplements,
> tax credits, etc, then is that ammount more or less
> than the average family pays in state income taxes and
> the GET tax, and city and county fees?
>

Again, what is the answer?

On Thu, 11 Jan 2007, Jerry Okamura wrote:

> "Alvin E. Toda" <aet@lava.net> wrote in message
> news:1168317609-sch@news.lava.net...
>
>> More specifically, what is the question? If someone
>> were to check how much the poor get in general
>> assistance, medical insurance, and rental
>> supplements, tax credits, etc, then is that ammount
>> more or less than the average family pays in state
>> income taxes and the GET tax, and city and county
>> fees?
>>
>
> Again, what is the answer?

If you agree that this is the question, then I don't
see a need to do research here. My opinion is that the
answer is that the total govt assistance is greater.
That is why they are poor enough to qualify for
assistance. In fact, what they get might be about the
same as their income?