Tragic accident in Makakilo

Jerry, the traffic design of certain major U.S. cities are textbook "bad
design" so, I wouldn't rely on Los Angeles County as the guide for the
rest
of the nation. Intersection placement, while convenient, creates
extraordinary risks, including lack of visibility of pedestrians
crossing at
the intersection when there is a metro bus obscuring the view of other
traffic. Intersection stops also have a tendency to increase traffic
(bus/car vs. car) accidents. Placing the stop further towards the
middle of
the block makes it safer.

Should the design accomodate the convenience of bus passengers, or their
safety?

On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, Quante981 wrote:

> Sue Larkin wrote:

>> I don't remember which station I was watching but
>> the report
> definitely
>> included jaywalking, that the kids do it due to the
>> positioning of
> the
>> bus stop in relation to the crosswalks and that
>> there was a bus stop
> on
>> only one side of the street; the opposite side from
>> where the teen lived. Such a sad story. Changes are
>> already in progress.
>
> You are probably right. The tv news pieces Friday
> evening also used the term jaywalking.

The reports may include jaywalking, but that is
inaccurate. The only crosswalks are at the corners, and
Hawaii law does allow midblock crossing. Technically,
jaywalking can only occur near the corners where there
are crosswalks. But in practice, anytime that you don't
use crosswalks is called "jaywalking" even if it is not
illegal.

In fact, that is a proposal of those opposed to traffic
calming in the area. They want a midblock crosswalk
with a traffic light set to green. This street handles
local traffic and there is hardly any pedestrian
traffic except for the school (which makes it a school
zone-- a low speed zone), and even very little car
traffic most of the day. Trouble is that it's so wide a
street and cars speed on the street, so it's hard to
cross safely. Also 100 feet away from the crosswalk it
would still be legal to make a midblock crossing. It's
not that close to the corners. It might be more
feasible to have two midblock crosswalks with
stoplights, but a much cheaper alternative would be to
put a roundabout in front of the school.

--alvin

On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, Jerry Okamura wrote:

> "MTI" <mark@mc-carter.com> wrote in message
> news:1113098708-sch@news.lava.net...

>> near the corner of an intersection, as opposed
>> to futher down the block.
>> Turning cars, cars following thru the
>> intersection and other hazards,
>> like
>> people in crosswalks, makes it safer not to put
>> bus stops at corners.
>>
>
> In Los Angeles, almost all the bus stops are on
> "corners". If they are so dangerous, why are they
> there? Besides, I would guess that bus stops are
> near corners, because that allows people from all
> directions to have convenient access to catching the
> bus, don't you think? If it was say in the middle of
> a block, that would mean that someone who is across

Of course stops are not "at" corners because that is
dangerous. But they are "near" corners because that
makes it easier to transfer busses.

Nonetheless, there are midblock stops-- especially when
it is a long walk to the one near the corner.

--alvin

"MTI" <mark@mc-carter.com> wrote in message
news:1113281402-sch@news.lava.net...
>
> Jerry, the traffic design of certain major U.S.
> cities are textbook "bad
> design" so, I wouldn't rely on Los Angeles
> County as the guide for the
> rest
> of the nation. Intersection placement, while
> convenient, creates
> extraordinary risks, including lack of
> visibility of pedestrians
> crossing at
> the intersection when there is a metro bus
> obscuring the view of other
> traffic. Intersection stops also have a
> tendency to increase traffic
> (bus/car vs. car) accidents. Placing the stop
> further towards the
> middle of
> the block makes it safer.
>
> Should the design accomodate the convenience of
> bus passengers, or their
> safety?
>

It would seem to me, that there is always a basic
tradeoff between safety and convenience. One
problem I can see with putting bus stops in the
center of a block, is that if you are across the
street from the bus stop, you will have to walk to
the nearest intersection with a crosswalk (or
jaywalk) to catch that bus.

"Alvin E. Toda" <aet@lava.net> wrote in message
news:1113281412-sch@news.lava.net...
>
> On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, Jerry Okamura wrote:
>

>
> Nonetheless, there are midblock stops--
> especially when
> it is a long walk to the one near the corner.
>
The "rule" or the exception to the "rule:?

In article <1113369904-sch@news.lava.net>, "Jerry Okamura"
<okamuraj005@hawaii.> wrote:

> "MTI" <mark@mc-carter.com> wrote in message
> news:1113281402-sch@news.lava.net...
[...]
> > Should the design accomodate the convenience of
> > bus passengers, or their
> > safety?
> >
>
> It would seem to me, that there is always a basic
> tradeoff between safety and convenience. One
> problem I can see with putting bus stops in the
> center of a block, is that if you are across the
> street from the bus stop, you will have to walk to
> the nearest intersection with a crosswalk (or
> jaywalk) to catch that bus.

While driving to the Waianae post office this morning I paid attention
to the placement of the bus stops...in this case, TheBus stops, not
school bus stops which was the case in Makakilo, iirc. There didn't
seem to be any rhyme or reason to their placement. Some were mid block,
equidistant between 2 cross walks. Others were closer to corners and
crosswalks. There isn't a bus stop convenient to a crosswalk anywhere
near Waianae High School, on either side of Farrington Hwy. Scary.