Sustainability - Hawaii should talk to people in Germany

Look at the globe of the earth.. with special reference
to Hawai`i.
It's a tiny speck on the planet.. that should tell us something..
Hawai`i is very, very vulnerable.. its resources limited..
and access to vital resources from other sources distant
and expensive.
Hawaiians should take this as a lesson to undertake the
most intensive and extensive analysis of its future needs
for survival and lifestyle requirements.
I would suggest the proper choices should address
sustainable development and a substantive reduction program
toward dependance on importations of goods and materials.
This strategy would prepare Hawaiians for an unforeseen
event that would interfere with transport and delivery
to Hawai`i.
--
Longing to be closer to to the sun, the wind and the sea!
Spiritually at: Latitude 21 degrees 19' 9" North. _!_
Longtitude 157 degrees 56' 31" West. Aloha! ___o_(_)_o___
q

"John W. Bienko" <as312@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
news:1116390300-sch@news.lava.net...
>
> Look at the globe of the earth.. with special reference
> to Hawai`i.
> It's a tiny speck on the planet.. that should tell us something..
> Hawai`i is very, very vulnerable.. its resources limited..
> and access to vital resources from other sources distant
> and expensive.
> Hawaiians should take this as a lesson to undertake the
> most intensive and extensive analysis of its future needs
> for survival and lifestyle requirements.
> I would suggest the proper choices should address
> sustainable development and a substantive reduction program
> toward dependance on importations of goods and materials.
> This strategy would prepare Hawaiians for an unforeseen
> event that would interfere with transport and delivery
> to Hawai`i.

I do not see what a study will do. The equation it seems to me is pretty
straight forward. "x" number of people, need "y" resources. Those
resources are those that are basically required to live.

Interesting discussion. There are tradeoffs in any
living arrangement. People in Hawaii already use
less electricity than on the Mainland. The climate
and cost differences are a factor. What might other
factors be? Culture? Conservation?

One influence I haven't seen discussed much is
the effect of population density. Honolulu has high
population density, and long traffic snarls. Maui has
lower population density, and proportionally fewer
traffic problems. The number of road lanes, speed
limits, etc. are also important.

So, how is traffic related to electricity? It affects
consumption during peak hours. For example, if you
get home from work sooner, then you have (in theory)
more time to cook, watch tv, etc. Folks with longer
commutes seem to have less time at home, so maybe
they use less electricity. Electrical power plants are
designed to satisfy peak demand. Thus, peak consump-
tion behaviors can be important.

Comments?

Aloha from warm, sunset Gv -

Mark. mssz@m

On Wed, 18 May 2005, John W. Bienko wrote:

> Look at the globe of the earth.. with special
> reference to Hawai`i. It's a tiny speck on the
> planet.. that should tell us something.. Hawai`i is
> very, very vulnerable.. its resources limited.. and
> access to vital resources from other sources distant
> and expensive. Hawaiians should take this as a lesson
> to undertake the most intensive and extensive
> analysis of its future needs for survival and
> lifestyle requirements. I would suggest the proper

Funny, the global perspective works real well for
outsiders. But for most of use who live here and vote,
no one thinks that anything will have a limit until it
happens, and things take a big jump in cost. I mean
most complain about the price of milk, but pay it, and
don't ask why. That even applies to gas prices.

--alvin

"Mark Schmalz" <mssz@m> wrote in message
news:1116476702-sch@news.lava.net...
>
> Interesting discussion. There are tradeoffs in any
> living arrangement. People in Hawaii already use
> less electricity than on the Mainland. The climate
> and cost differences are a factor. What might other
> factors be? Culture? Conservation?

I am not sure that is correct either, i.e. the people of Hawaii use less
electricity than on the Mainland. But that would be an interesting thing to
know. I lived in Southern California. Depending on where you lived in
Southern California, you could live very comfortably without any air
conditioning (and certainly not during the winter months), whereas in the
lower elevations of Hawaii, an air conditioning is almost a necessity, and
that air conditioning is needed all year around if you have one. And even
if a person does not have air conditioning in their homes here, I would
assume they agument that with the use of fans. If you use enough fans
around the home, that would eat up a lot of electricity, and again that is
needed all year around I would think.
>
> One influence I haven't seen discussed much is
> the effect of population density. Honolulu has high
> population density, and long traffic snarls. Maui has
> lower population density, and proportionally fewer
> traffic problems. The number of road lanes, speed
> limits, etc. are also important.
>
> So, how is traffic related to electricity? It affects
> consumption during peak hours. For example, if you
> get home from work sooner, then you have (in theory)
> more time to cook, watch tv, etc. Folks with longer
> commutes seem to have less time at home, so maybe
> they use less electricity. Electrical power plants are
> designed to satisfy peak demand. Thus, peak consump-
> tion behaviors can be important.
>
I would think your question applies to any area with a high population
density. So, the problems that apply to Honolulu apply to any city that has
a high population density, and of course visa verssa, Maui is in the same
situation as any area on the mainland with a lower population density.

In article <1116543000-sch@news.lava.net>,
"Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.> wrote:

in the
> lower elevations of Hawaii, an air conditioning is almost a necessity, and
> that air conditioning is needed all year around if you have one. And even
> if a person does not have air conditioning in their homes here, I would
> assume they agument that with the use of fans. If you use enough fans
> around the home, that would eat up a lot of electricity, and again that is
> needed all year around I would think.

I live on the ocean, east Honolulu, and no a/c and no fans.
No need.
know of many people around here, same t'ing.




(wait! how DO you "agument having no a/c with the use of fans"?!)

"kimo" <kimolanikaim> wrote in message
news:1116582905-sch@news.lava.net...
>
> In article <1116543000-sch@news.lava.net>,
> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.> wrote:
>
> in the
>> lower elevations of Hawaii, an air conditioning is almost a
>> necessity,
>> and
>> that air conditioning is needed all year around if you have one. And
>> even
>> if a person does not have air conditioning in their homes here, I
>> would
>> assume they agument that with the use of fans. If you use enough
>> fans
>> around the home, that would eat up a lot of electricity, and again
>> that
>> is
>> needed all year around I would think.
>
> I live on the ocean, east Honolulu, and no a/c and no fans.
> No need.
> know of many people around here, same t'ing.
>

That is not the point. It is not what an individual needs, but what a
lot
of individuals think they need.

In article <1116582905-sch@news.lava.net>, kimo <kimolanikaim>
wrote:

> In article <1116543000-sch@news.lava.net>,
> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.> wrote:
>
> in the
> > lower elevations of Hawaii, an air conditioning is almost a
necessity, and
> > that air conditioning is needed all year around if you have one. And
even
> > if a person does not have air conditioning in their homes here, I would
> > assume they agument that with the use of fans. If you use enough fans
> > around the home, that would eat up a lot of electricity, and again
that is
> > needed all year around I would think.
>
> I live on the ocean, east Honolulu, and no a/c and no fans.
> No need.
> know of many people around here, same t'ing.

It's a bit different on the west side of Oahu. I don't have a/c but I do
have ceiling fans; one in the living room and one in the bedroom. My
condo building is situated so that a majority of the units, mine
included, can take advantage of the tradewinds by opening windows.
There's probably 10-15 days during the course of a year (usually during
August and Sept.) that I really wish I had a/c. That's too few days to
justify the purchase and installation...not to mention the increase in
electricity. Since Makaha is on the dryer, warmer side of the island I
do need the fans 3 out of 4 seasons. My HECO bill is approx. $10/mo
higher with the fans on (one during the day, the other at night...not
both at the same time!) than with them off. That doesn't sound like much
so, to put it in perspective...my average HECO bill during the winter is
$35/mo. The other 3 seasons the average is $45/mo. So...a 30%
difference! A/C would bump it up a lot more.

On Fri, 20 May 2005, Jerry Okamura wrote:

> "kimo" <kimolanikaim> wrote in message
> news:1116582905-sch@news.lava.net...

>> I live on the ocean, east Honolulu, and no a/c and
>> no fans. No need. know of many people around here,
>> same t'ing.
>
> That is not the point. It is not what an individual
> needs, but what a lot of individuals think they need.

But that is the point Jerry. If you're talking about
the majority of people, then the majority do not have
AC. I think you're the one talking about "individual
needs". We need to acknowledge the silent majority here
in this case.

--alvin

Alvin.. you are so lucky.. living the life of Rielly
... having lunch on Waikiki.. cooled by the Trade Wind
breezes.. with that spectacular view of Diamondhead.
Sue sya it so well.. when she stresses the importancc
of location.. location.. location.
--
Longing to be closer to to the sun, the wind and the sea!
Spiritually at: Latitude 21 degrees 19' 9" North. _!_
Longtitude 157 degrees 56' 31" West. Aloha! ___o_(_)_o___
q