Casinos in Hawai`i

Hawaiians should be well informed on what to expect if and
when casino gambling is approved for Hawai`i.
To address the serious issue of problem gamblers in its
casinos, Ontario will put kiosks on the casino floor to
which pathological gamblers may retreat when the need strikes.
And the cost to society is high. The Ontario Problem
Gambling Research Centre estimates 4.8% of adult Ontarions
are addicted to gambling.. and the Canadian Safety Council
estimated that problem gambling accounts nationally for
between 200 and 360 suicides a year.
THere are also proposals to get rid of automated bank machines
on casino floors and to prevent casinos from offering
perks to encourage the biggest gamblers.
--
Longing to be closer to to the sun, the wind and the sea!
Spiritually at: Latitude 21 degrees 19' 9" North. _!_
Longtitude 157 degrees 56' 31" West. Aloha! ___o_(_)_o___
q

I am a little confused. Is there legal gambling
in Ontario? And other than gambling, how many
others commit sucide every year for other reasons.

"John W. Bienko" <as312@freenet.carleton.ca> wrote
in message news:1112847901-sch@news.lava.net...
>
> Hawaiians should be well informed on what to
> expect if and
> when casino gambling is approved for Hawai`i.
> To address the serious issue of problem gamblers
> in its
> casinos, Ontario will put kiosks on the casino
> floor to
> which pathological gamblers may retreat when the
> need strikes.
> And the cost to society is high. The Ontario
> Problem
> Gambling Research Centre estimates 4.8% of adult
> Ontarions
> are addicted to gambling.. and the Canadian
> Safety Council
> estimated that problem gambling accounts
> nationally for
> between 200 and 360 suicides a year.
> THere are also proposals to get rid of automated
> bank machines
> on casino floors and to prevent casinos from
> offering
> perks to encourage the biggest gamblers.

Note the studies in Canada in the posting below of 4.6%
vs the US estimate of 5% addicted in Las Vegas, and 200
to 300 suicides a years. So addiction really exists and
is not an insignificant number, unless you think that
5% is not too large a number. alvin

On Thu, 7 Apr 2005, Jerry Okamura wrote:

> I am a little confused. Is there legal gambling in
> Ontario? And other than gambling, how many others
> commit sucide every year for other reasons.
>
> "John W. Bienko" <as312@freenet.carleton.ca> wrote
> in message news:1112847901-sch@news.lava.net...

>> Hawaiians should be well informed on what to expect
>> if and when casino gambling is approved for Hawai`i.
>> To address the serious issue of problem gamblers in
>> its casinos, Ontario will put kiosks on the casino
>> floor to which pathological gamblers may retreat
>> when the need strikes. And the cost to society is
>> high. The Ontario Problem Gambling Research Centre
>> estimates 4.8% of adult Ontarions are addicted to
>> gambling.. and the Canadian Safety Council estimated
>> that problem gambling accounts nationally for
>> between 200 and 360 suicides a year. THere are also
>> proposals to get rid of automated bank machines on
>> casino floors and to prevent casinos from offering
>> perks to encourage the biggest gamblers.

Alvin, no reasonable person would dispute the existence of gambling
addiction. However, the "misuse" of statistics is rampant. There are
likely more suicide attempts by people with chemical and relationship
problems, in conjunction with gambling. There is a correlation between
other addictions and gambling addiction . . . so which was "the cause?"

Here's some facts about Canandian gaming (horse racing, casino, lottery
and
card playing) from a Canadian advocacy group::

No one knows exactly how many compulsive gamblers end up taking their
own
lives in Canada. The Canada Safety Council believes the number is over
200 a
year. For every suicide, five gamblers with self-inflicted injuries
could
end up in hospital. Gambling addiction is also linked to a range of
other
serious personal and social harms such as bankruptcy, family breakup,
domestic abuse, assault, fraud, theft and even homelessness.

There are no national statistics on suicides and attempted suicides
related
to gambling addiction. In part, this is because they are very hard to
collect. Those investigating or treating an incident may not always
pursue
gambling as a possible factor. Even if such reporting becomes mandatory,
compulsive gamblers and those close to them may hide the problem due to
feelings of shame and guilt. In some cases, suicides are disguised as
"accidents."

Compare the frequency of suicide attempts

"Alvin E. Toda" <aet@lava.net> wrote in message
news:1112952901-sch@news.lava.net...
>
> Note the studies in Canada in the posting below
> of 4.6%
> vs the US estimate of 5% addicted in Las Vegas,
> and 200
> to 300 suicides a years. So addiction really
> exists and
> is not an insignificant number, unless you think
> that
> 5% is not too large a number. alvin
>
Again, I am not aware that Canada has legalized
gambling....does it? Because if they do not have
legalized gambling, that where are they
"gambling"? And we have gone over the issue of
addiction more than once. When you and I were
young, addiction was only for those who suffered
severe withdrawal pains when they stopped using
drugs. Since that time, we seem to have expanded
the definition of what is an addiction. Which
does bring up the question, what is an "addiction"
when used today. As for the number of suicides in
Las Vegas, one would have to know a couple of
things, (1) what percentage of the suicides are
"thought" to be related to gambling loses, what
percentage of the suicides are teenage suicides
(which as I understand it is the highest rate of
suicide among humans), to name two that come to
mind.

Canada has legalized gambling in casinos and racetracks.
The suicide count is valid.. it comprises the suicides
right on the premises of the casino.. eg bathrooms/grounds
and those suubstantiated by letters/notes made by the
deceased.
The cost to society is substantive indeed..
affecting forever the members of the deceased's families
and friends.
The only winners are the owners of the casinos/racetracks..
billionaires all.
--
Longing to be closer to to the sun, the wind and the sea!
Spiritually at: Latitude 21 degrees 19' 9" North. _!_
Longtitude 157 degrees 56' 31" West. Aloha! ___o_(_)_o___
q

Thought I would put some meat on this
conversation. Canada has a population of around
32 million. Of that there were 4073 suicides in
1999. What I was not able to determine is, of the
4073 suicides, how many could be linked to
gambling being the reason for them to commit
suicide. Which represents less then .01% of the
total population.

As for the cost to society, I would think that is
one of those two edge swords. A dead person no
longer uses the benefits bestowed by government,
so the taxpayers who pay the bills, have "saved" a
little money. The effects on someone who commits
suicide is primarily those who are close to that
individual, it does not affect significantly
anyone else, and it certainly does not really
affect those who do not know the individual. And
I would argue that even the owners of the casino's
are not winners, since a dead person cannot gamble
at those establishments any more. It is not in
the interest of the casino to see a whole lot of
their customers committing sucide, or for that
matter going broke.


"John W. Bienko" <as312@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote
in message news:1113064800-sch@news.lava.net...
>
> Canada has legalized gambling in casinos and
> racetracks.
> The suicide count is valid.. it comprises the
> suicides
> right on the premises of the casino.. eg
> bathrooms/grounds
> and those suubstantiated by letters/notes made
> by the
> deceased.
> The cost to society is substantive indeed..
> affecting forever the members of the deceased's
> families
> and friends.
> The only winners are the owners of the
> casinos/racetracks..
> billionaires all.
> --
> Longing to be closer to to the sun, the wind and
> the sea!
> Spiritually at: Latitude 21 degrees 19' 9"
> North. _!_
> Longtitude 157 degrees 56' 31" West. Aloha!
> ___o_(_)_o___
> q
>

On Fri, 8 Apr 2005, MTI wrote:

> Alvin, no reasonable person would dispute the
> existence of gambling addiction. However, the
> "misuse" of statistics is rampant. There are likely
> more suicide attempts by people with chemical and
> relationship problems, in conjunction with gambling.
> There is a correlation between other addictions and
> gambling addiction . . . so which was "the cause?"

There are always skeptical people like Jerry who do not
accept what is commonly reported unless they see some
statistics. And this is even for what is often headline
news for most of us. I think this comes from not
reading the local dailies from Honolulu. I've lived on
an outer island which had a biweekly publication (every
two weeks), but which most of the news was rumor-- the
coconut wireless. The 5th or 6th telling is often quite
strange compared to the real story, and those who don't
rely on TV or radio sometimes have a hard time
believing the news from Honolulu. This was about 40
years ago. Maybe the situation is better now.

But as to the "cause" question, that's a kind of
technical one and I'm sure debatable depending on who
is doing the study.

> Here's some facts about Canandian gaming (horse
> racing, casino, lottery and card playing) from a
> Canadian advocacy group::
>
> No one knows exactly how many compulsive gamblers
> end up taking their own lives in Canada. The Canada
> Safety Council believes the number is over 200 a
> year. For every suicide, five gamblers with
> self-inflicted injuries could end up in hospital.
> Gambling addiction is also linked to a range of other
> serious personal and social harms such as bankruptcy,
> family breakup, domestic abuse, assault, fraud, theft
> and even homelessness.
>
> There are no national statistics on suicides and
> attempted suicides related to gambling addiction. In
> part, this is because they are very hard to collect.
> Those investigating or treating an incident may not
> always pursue gambling as a possible factor. Even if
> such reporting becomes mandatory, compulsive gamblers
> and those close to them may hide the problem due to
> feelings of shame and guilt. In some cases, suicides
> are disguised as "accidents."

There are some who would say that even one suicide is
bad enough, and with at least 200 for an estimate, that
that figure is surely bad enough. But if a higher
amount of suicides is not considered a problem, then
perhaps, we need to consider the question of how "bad"
is the "bad" situation. 200 is bad enough for me. Don't
need to know if it's really as high as 300.

--alvin

On Fri, 8 Apr 2005, MTI wrote:

> Alvin, no reasonable person would dispute the
> existence of gambling addiction. However, the
> "misuse" of statistics is rampant. There are likely
> more suicide attempts by people with chemical and
> relationship problems, in conjunction with gambling.
> There is a correlation between other addictions and
> gambling addiction . . . so which was "the cause?"

There are always skeptical people like Jerry who do not
accept what is commonly reported unless they see some
statistics. And this is even for what is often headline
news for most of us. I think this comes from not
reading the local dailies from Honolulu. I've lived on
an outer island which had a biweekly publication (every
two weeks), but which most of the news was rumor-- the
coconut wireless. The 5th or 6th telling is often quite
strange compared to the real story, and those who don't
rely on TV or radio sometimes have a hard time
believing the news from Honolulu. This was about 40
years ago. Maybe the situation is better now.

But as to the "cause" question, that's a kind of
technical one and I'm sure debatable depending on who
is doing the study.

> Here's some facts about Canandian gaming (horse
> racing, casino, lottery and card playing) from a
> Canadian advocacy group::
>
> No one knows exactly how many compulsive gamblers
> end up taking their own lives in Canada. The Canada
> Safety Council believes the number is over 200 a
> year. For every suicide, five gamblers with
> self-inflicted injuries could end up in hospital.
> Gambling addiction is also linked to a range of other
> serious personal and social harms such as bankruptcy,
> family breakup, domestic abuse, assault, fraud, theft
> and even homelessness.
>
> There are no national statistics on suicides and
> attempted suicides related to gambling addiction. In
> part, this is because they are very hard to collect.
> Those investigating or treating an incident may not
> always pursue gambling as a possible factor. Even if
> such reporting becomes mandatory, compulsive gamblers
> and those close to them may hide the problem due to
> feelings of shame and guilt. In some cases, suicides
> are disguised as "accidents."

There are some who would say that even one suicide is
bad enough, and with at least 200 for an estimate, that
that figure is surely bad enough. But if a higher
amount of suicides is not considered a problem, then
perhaps, we need to consider the question of how "bad"
is the "bad" situation. 200 is bad enough for me. Don't
need to know if it's really as high as 300.

--alvin

"Alvin E. Toda" <aet@lava.net> wrote in message
news:1113098705-sch@news.lava.net...
>
>

>
> There are always skeptical people like Jerry who
> do not
> accept what is commonly reported unless they see
> some
> statistics.

Well now, I posted some statistics on suicides in
Canada, which I noticed you did not respond to.
So, who is calling the kettle black?