Casinos in Hawai`i

"John W. Bienko" <as312@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote
in message news:1113670209-sch@news.lava.net...
>
> In my opinion..
> Important issues.. casino gambling being one..
> should not be decided on economic grounds, nor
> by the voice of the majority..
> but by the logic of reason and ethics.
> I would be interested to know whether the
> traditions
> of ancient Hawaiian society would approve or
> disapprove
> casino gambling.

Here is something for you to think about. Let us
for the sake of discussion, say that Hawaiians are
given basically the same rights as American
Indians. What is to stop them from them opening
up gambling operations, just like some American
Indian tribes have done? Now are you going to
make the argument that the ancient American Indian
society would approve or disapprove of casino
gambling....heck the thought probably never
entered their mind. And I suppose one could make
the argument that this should not be decided on
economic grounds, but if you were in a postion to
find the means to say, provide a whole lot of
income for your "tribe" what would be your
choice....let them continue to live the way they
do now, or perhaps give them a chance at a better
life?

The American Indian Tribes were coerced into allowing
casino gambling on their lands.
THe casinos are nominally registered in the name of the
INdian Tribe.. and the tribe does share somewhat in the
profits.. BUT
the largest share of the casino profits go to the
de facto management and operators of the casino.
Many American Indian Tribes regret the decision allowin
gambling on their lands. The promise of employment for
the young generation has provided low pay, long hours.
--
Longing to be closer to to the sun, the wind and the sea!
Spiritually at: Latitude 21 degrees 19' 9" North. _!_
Longtitude 157 degrees 56' 31" West. Aloha! ___o_(_)_o___
q

In article <1113696301-sch@news.lava.net>,
as312@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (John W. Bienko) wrote:

> The American Indian Tribes were coerced into allowing
> casino gambling on their lands.

That's a pretty broad statement. All of them? Which ones? Cite?

> THe casinos are nominally registered in the name of the
> INdian Tribe.. and the tribe does share somewhat in the
> profits..

A lot of the profits, actually.

> BUT
> the largest share of the casino profits go to the
> de facto management and operators of the casino.
> Many American Indian Tribes regret the decision allowin
> gambling on their lands.

Many don't. More sweeping generalizations.

> The promise of employment for
> the young generation has provided low pay, long hours.

OTOH, the promise of tribal income for things like health care,
education, and
other tribal services has often paid off well.

I get the impression that you either don't really know what you are
talking
about, or are just propagandizing. Maybe both.

On Sun, 17 Apr 2005, Sam Rouse wrote:

> In article <1113696301-sch@news.lava.net>,
> as312@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (John W. Bienko) wrote:
>
>> The American Indian Tribes were coerced into
>> allowing casino gambling on their lands.
>
> That's a pretty broad statement. All of them?
> Which ones? Cite?

In the case of Hawaii, there seems to be a group of
Hawaiians that you see now and then in the news
advocating a casino on native Hawaiian land. Doesn't
seem to be any other reason than money. Believe the
majority of Hawaiians do not support such an
establishment. You sort of wonder where support like
that is coming from? And who in particular would
benefit. Believe the vast majority of the potential
200,000 beneficiaries will not benefit.

--alvin

"John W. Bienko" <as312@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote
in message news:1113696301-sch@news.lava.net...
>
> The American Indian Tribes were coerced into
> allowing
> casino gambling on their lands.

"Coerced"? Are you saying that the leaders of
these tribes are no better than criminals in that
they are not concerned about their tribes well
being?

In article <1113734405-sch@news.lava.net>, "Alvin E. Toda" <aet@lava.net>
wrote:

> On Sun, 17 Apr 2005, Sam Rouse wrote:
>
> > In article <1113696301-sch@news.lava.net>,
> > as312@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (John W. Bienko) wrote:
> >
> >> The American Indian Tribes were coerced into
> >> allowing casino gambling on their lands.
> >
> > That's a pretty broad statement. All of them?
> > Which ones? Cite?
>
> In the case of Hawaii, there seems to be a group of
> Hawaiians that you see now and then in the news
> advocating a casino on native Hawaiian land. Doesn't
> seem to be any other reason than money. Believe the
> majority of Hawaiians do not support such an
> establishment. You sort of wonder where support like
> that is coming from? And who in particular would
> benefit. Believe the vast majority of the potential
> 200,000 beneficiaries will not benefit.

Alvin, you've already made it pretty clear what you believe,
and why you wonder where "support like that" is coming from.
Why don't you try to actually find out, instead of just
believing based on your own biases?

Yes Gerry.. the leaders of many Indian Tribes who have
allowed casino gambling on INdian Land have been coerced..
and even bribed.
The promoters for the casino development have appealed to
the greed factor of the INdian leaders.. being promised
symbolic management positions and investment in corporate
stock ownership.
A very minimal financial return finds its way to the
ordinary Indian. A few may enjoy employment at minium
wages.. and few benefits.
The reality is that in the end the gamblers themselves
can never win.. the odds favor the casino.. the
gambler may win now and then.. but finally will lose.
And in many cases will lose the family fortune.. and
in some cases their own lives.. through suicide.
Apply ethics and reason to the decision.. and let
your heart tell you the truth.
--
Longing to be closer to to the sun, the wind and the sea!
Spiritually at: Latitude 21 degrees 19' 9" North. _!_
Longtitude 157 degrees 56' 31" West. Aloha! ___o_(_)_o___
q

THe economic benefits to the Confederated Tribes of Grande Ronde
report approximately $27 million annually paid to the tribe.
The 10 years stated would indicate a total of $270 million
having been paid to the tribe since 1995.
THat is a formidable sum indeed.
Now I would ask you to show us where the money went?

--
Longing to be closer to to the sun, the wind and the sea!
Spiritually at: Latitude 21 degrees 19' 9" North. _!_
Longtitude 157 degrees 56' 31" West. Aloha! ___o_(_)_o___
q

"Alvin E. Toda" <aet@lava.net> wrote in message
news:1113835505-sch@news.lava.net...
>
>
> IIRC, the hotel and travel industry is on record
> as
> being opposed to casinos. So I don't know where
> this
> support is coming from-- unless the lobbyists
> have way
> more influence and effectiveness than their
> small
> numbers would show.
>
Who in the hotel and travel industry?

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005, Jerry Okamura wrote:

> "Alvin E. Toda" <aet@lava.net> wrote in message
> news:1113835507-sch@news.lava.net...

>> new governing Hawaiian entity. What I'm talking
>> here, if you have noticed, is not money to
>> Hawaiians, but money to Hawaiians in power and
>> casino owners.
>>
> Then the Hawaiian's only have themselves to blame for
> having "corrupt" leaders? Nothing I can do about
> that. If they choose to have "corrupt" leaders, that
> is their responsibility isn't it?

I've once heard leaders concerned that in a popular
election, that the people elected might have more name
recognition-- like entertainers, athletes, or coaches--
and monetary support than good sense. It's a little
like regular elections and public financing. We can get
better leaders by conpetition.

--alvin