Iceland aloha

On Wed, 23 Feb 2005, Dan Birchall wrote:

> There's a Thorstein Thorsteinsson (yes, really) who's
> working with the NASA Astrobiology Institute's lead
> team at UH-Manoa/IfA. Glaciologist, I think. Met
> him when the Astrobiology Winter School brought a
> bunch of grad students from around the world over
> here and took them up the mountain...

My Icelander acquaintance lived and worked in Palo
Alto, California. But I'm really amazed that someone
who studies glaciers would be living in Hawaii. IIRC
don't they have volcanoes as well as a lot of ice in
Iceland?

--alvin

Alvin.. please advise what IIRC means.

--
Longing to be closer to to the sun, the wind and the sea!
Spiritually at: Latitude 21 degrees 19' 9" North. _!_
Longtitude 157 degrees 56' 31" West. Aloha! ___o_(_)_o___
q

On Thu, 24 Feb 2005, John W. Bienko wrote:

>
> Alvin.. please advise what IIRC means.
>

Hi John...sorry if it seems cryptic. If I Recall
Correctly. aloha, alvin

They are even understating the similarities. Iceland was founded by
viking longboats (open, with sail... shiver) which were voyaging and
settling the north Atlantic the same time polynesians were voyaging the
Pacific over a thousand years ago. A main resource is fish, but not
much else besides volcanic geothermal power.

Differences: With the land so barren and weather so unforgiving it is
understandable that a serious, thoughtful demeanor is common - maybe a
typical northern survival strategy. And like a lot of northern places,
this has worked well economically - Iceland has become rich, rich,
rich. They are in the news for many billion $ purchases of European
companies. Their stock market is going ballistic - doubling and
tripling in not so many months. Yet their entire population is only
something like a third of Honolulu - they are like a little
neighborhood!

Maybe Kahoolawe could be turned into a little Iceland. Open it to
replica Hawaiian voyaging canoes for settlement. Give them an exclusive
fishing zone. Lack of fresh water should give a challenge for keeping
minds focused. Promote raised standards of education and radical
deregulation of economy, as in Iceland...

Alvin E. Toda wrote:
>
> On Wed, 23 Feb 2005, Dan Birchall wrote:
>
>> There's a Thorstein Thorsteinsson (yes, really) who's
>> working with the NASA Astrobiology Institute's lead
>> team at UH-Manoa/IfA. Glaciologist, I think. Met
>> him when the Astrobiology Winter School brought a
>> bunch of grad students from around the world over
>> here and took them up the mountain...
>
> My Icelander acquaintance lived and worked in Palo
> Alto, California. But I'm really amazed that someone
> who studies glaciers would be living in Hawaii.

Wasn't too long ago on geological timescales, the last eruption
on Mauna Kea occurred under a glacier, about 5000 years ago.
And for all I know, if you dig down about a foot you're in
permafrost now.

> IIRC
> don't they have volcanoes as well as a lot of ice in
> Iceland?

yup.
Saw it all from the air 5 years ago, first time that I actually flew
over it during daytime and in clear weather (non-stop London to
San Francisco or LAX will take you over Iceland).

Maren

On 2005-02-24 18:35:03 -1000, Maren Purves <m.purves@jach.hawaii.edu>
said:

> Wasn't too long ago on geological timescales, the last eruption
> on Mauna Kea occurred under a glacier, about 5000 years ago.
> And for all I know, if you dig down about a foot you're in
> permafrost now.

Mauna Kea has glaciers, but I dunno if Mauka Kea actually erupted
beneath the ice. The last glacial advance was more like 20,000 years
ago rather than 5k, but the lowest glacial moraines on Mauna Kea are
older than 20k. Yes there is permafrost up there, but only a small
patch under Lake Waiau. Lake Waiau is a strange little lake in the
hollow of a cinder cone. How can cinder hold water? The water in the
cinder is frozen and impermeable. What stops the permafrost from
melting? It's buffered by the water in the lake. The whole bizarre
situation reminds me of boiling water in a paper cup over an open fire.

One volcano that definitely erupted under ice at least once is
Haleakala---high up in Kaupo Gap are pillow basalts, which only form
under water. A lot of geologists now think that Haleakala Crater was
carved by a glacier when the mountain itself was several thousand feet
higher.

BTW, Iceland and Hawaii have another similarity: they were both formed
by hot spots. In terms of the amount of material erupted, Hawaii is the
most energetic hot spot on the face of the planet, but Iceland is not
far behind. Number three is way, way back.

The kind of lavas Iceland and Hawaii erupt are very similar, and their
styles of eruption are similar. That's why in the School of Ocean &
Earth Science & Technology & Motherhood & Apple Pie (I'll never forgive
Al Simone for putting two &s in our name) we have our very own
Icelander: Thordar Thordarson. He and our other volcanologists are
constantly trucking back and forth between Hawaii and Iceland.

One difference between Iceland and Hawaii: In Iceland they revel in
their geothermal power; in Hawaii, "geothermal" is a dirty word.

--
Gerard Fryer
Hawaii Inst. of Geophysics & Planetology

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005, Gerard Fryer wrote:

> Mauna Kea has glaciers, but I dunno if Mauka Kea
> actually erupted beneath the ice. The last glacial
> advance was more like 20,000 years ago rather than
> 5k, but the lowest glacial moraines on Mauna Kea are
> older than 20k. Yes there is permafrost up there, but
> only a small patch under Lake Waiau. Lake Waiau is a
> strange little lake in the hollow of a cinder cone.
> How can cinder hold water? The water in the cinder is
> frozen and impermeable. What stops the permafrost
> from melting? It's buffered by the water in the lake.
> The whole bizarre situation reminds me of boiling
> water in a paper cup over an open fire.

Mauna Kea...Isn't Mauna Loa higher? And more likely to
have ice? What about an eruption there 5000 years ago?
And isn't there also a lake on Mauna Loa?

> One volcano that definitely erupted under ice at
> least once is Haleakala---high up in Kaupo Gap are
> pillow basalts, which only form under water. A lot of
> geologists now think that Haleakala Crater was carved
> by a glacier when the mountain itself was several
> thousand feet higher.

What about a lake up there in addition to ice? I seem
to seeing a nice round lake somewhere in a crater many
years ago in the mainland. It just seems a natural
place for water to collect.

> BTW, Iceland and Hawaii have another similarity: they
> were both formed by hot spots. In terms of the amount
> of material erupted, Hawaii is the most energetic hot
> spot on the face of the planet, but Iceland is not
> far behind. Number three is way, way back.
>
> The kind of lavas Iceland and Hawaii erupt are very
> similar, and their styles of eruption are similar.
> That's why in the School of Ocean & Earth Science &
> Technology & Motherhood & Apple Pie (I'll never
> forgive Al Simone for putting two &s in our name) we
> have our very own Icelander: Thordar Thordarson. He
> and our other volcanologists are constantly trucking
> back and forth between Hawaii and Iceland.
>
> One difference between Iceland and Hawaii: In Iceland
> they revel in their geothermal power; in Hawaii,
> "geothermal" is a dirty word.
>
> --
> Gerard Fryer
> Hawaii Inst. of Geophysics & Planetology

Great information. We seem to be missing out on this
source of energy. But we have many other renewable
sources to check out. Don't think it's too much of a
lost opportunity. Perhaps Iceland and Honolulu should
hook up as sister cities-- we have so much in common.

--alvin

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005, Maren Purves wrote:

> Alvin E. Toda wrote:

> Wasn't too long ago on geological timescales, the
> last eruption on Mauna Kea occurred under a glacier,
> about 5000 years ago. And for all I know, if you dig
> down about a foot you're in permafrost now.

Just answered Gerald, and I have Mauna Kea confused
with Mauna Loa. It's just fantastic that there was once
a glacier here in Hawaii so long ago.

>> IIRC don't they have volcanoes as well as a lot of
>> ice in Iceland?
>
> yup. Saw it all from the air 5 years ago, first time
> that I actually flew over it during daytime and in
> clear weather (non-stop London to San Francisco or
> LAX will take you over Iceland).
>
> Maren

My acquaintance may have mentioned that as well. I
vaguely remember these Viking type of baths in their
cold weather. I guess they are of the volcanic variety.
Remember trying out a mud bath in Calistoga, CA once.
The mud has that sulpher volcanic smell.

--alvin