Gated Communities in Hawaii

In article <1112028602-sch@news.lava.net>, as312@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
(John W. Bienko) wrote:

:The police departments have poor track records in
:solving residential crime.. less than 10% of the
:breakins are brought to justice.
:I have witness breakin crimes in progress.. and reported
:the event as it was occuring.
:The police arrived on the scene 2 1/2 hours after the
:crooks left the premises.
:Since the police are ineffective.. gated communities are
:the only source of protection.

And even then protection isn't guaranteed. Gated communities are
deterrants at best, depending on the expertise of the thief dujour!

I live in another form of a gated community...a condo building! It has
a guard shack, a fence around the property and electronic gates. While
that kind of protection is better than nothing, it doesn't stop
break-ins. Where there's a will...

"Quante981" <quante981@m> wrote in
message news:1112055003-sch@news.lava.net...
>
>

>
> It's reality in Hawaii. On the mainland, public
> schools in many, many,
> many areas are better than a typical private
> school. Think where most
> of the Intel science talent search winners come
> from? Yep, public
> schools

Is that the result of the school being better, or
the simple fact that the vast majority of children
attend public schools?

"Sue Larkin" <suereel@xobop.com> wrote in message
news:1112077801-sch@news.lava.net...
>
> In article <1112039103-sch@news.lava.net>,
> "Jerry Okamura"
> <okamuraj005@hawaii.> wrote:
>
> :>
> :The mom and pop outfits "may be" tons more fun
> and
> :colorful, but where does the vast majority of
> :people who frequent these coffee houses go? A
> :franchise like Starbucks is only successful if
> :they have tons of customers. And as I
> understand
> :it, just to buy a Starbucks franchise takes a
> ton
> :of money, and people do not pay tons of money
> for
> :a franchise, unless they hope to get a decent
> :return on their investment, which means tons of
> :customers.
>
> And "tons of customers" tend to be a result of
> high visibility
> locations, high name recognition and high end
> advertising...all of
> which the local "mom 'n pop" businesses have
> trouble affording. Sad.
>

In business you either comptete or you die. And
there is a famous phrase for locating your
business, it is "location, location, location".
IBM used to be a powerhouse in the computer
business, but they did not react fast enough to
the changing nature of the computer business. The
steel industry in the US did not change over to
new and more efficient manufacutring technicques,
and they could not compete with the more
efficitnet foriegn steel manufacturers. The list
is endless.

"And even then protection isn't guaranteed. Gated communities are
deterrants at best, depending on the expertise of the thief dujour! "

IF... you live at the end of a long quiet country cul de sac, devoid of
streetlights, near a... lets say, heiau, you WILl have various and
sundry people coming into your area and parking at all hours. Just
hangin out and maybe wandering around. and maybe iceheads looking for a
convenient quick breakin.
IF.. this area is gated with a guard, you feel much safer. And you SEE
no such wanderers.

In article <1112251502-sch@news.lava.net>, "kimo"
<hawaiianstyle55@m> wrote:

> "And even then protection isn't guaranteed. Gated communities are
> deterrants at best, depending on the expertise of the thief dujour! "
>
> IF... you live at the end of a long quiet country cul de sac, devoid of
> streetlights, near a... lets say, heiau, you WILl have various and
> sundry people coming into your area and parking at all hours. Just
> hangin out and maybe wandering around. and maybe iceheads looking for a
> convenient quick breakin.

I don't live in such a setting so I'll take your word for it! However,
this sort of activity does take place in and around single family beach
front homes.

> IF.. this area is gated with a guard, you feel much safer. And you SEE
> no such wanderers.

I don't live in this setting either; rather an oceanfront condo, with
guards, gates and cameras. Do I feel safer? Yes...safer than living
alone in a single family beachfront home! Are there "wanderers" looking
for a convenient quick break-in? Yes...and with an occasional success!
Had some knock on my door at night several years ago. Not a good sign
since I'd not called anyone into the gate. I wasn't even tempted to
open my door, instead calling security immediately. And, in the past,
there was an ice lab or 2. Condo owners have started screening tenants
a bit better, esp. since the rapid escalation of property values and
the lower availability of rental units!

My parents lived in a beautiful gated community in SoCal for several
decades. While there were certainly less break-ins than in a similar
non-gated community, break-ins were not unheard of. Either were
wanderers. Gated communities are especially good at preventing unwanted
friends from dropping in without an invitation!!!

A gated community (single homes or condos) guarantees nothing. It's a
benefit, to be sure, but not a guarantee. It does, however, add to the
property value and to the monthly expenses!

Just my 2 cents!

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005, kimo wrote:

> IF... you live at the end of a long quiet country cul
> de sac, devoid of streetlights, near a... lets say,
> heiau, you WILl have various and sundry people coming
> into your area and parking at all hours. Just hangin
> out and maybe wandering around. and maybe iceheads
> looking for a convenient quick breakin. IF.. this
> area is gated with a guard, you feel much safer. And
> you SEE no such wanderers.

I guess this is where neighbors must cooperate to get
rid of such trouble in their area.

--alvin

"A gated community (single homes or condos) guarantees nothing. It's a
benefit, to be sure, but not a guarantee. It does, however, add to the
property value and to the monthly expenses! "


It guarantees a higher level of peace of mind. (And that is what many
want.)
It guarantees a reduction in strangers wandering or cruising around the
neighborhood.
Who knows WHAT percentage. But the before and after activity is proof
enuff for some.

"Dktr Sus" <stokegrrrl@m> wrote in
message news:1112328603-sch@news.lava.net...
>

>
> "In this island paradise, communities should be
> welcoming and
> accessible to everyone."

Including those who would rob you, rape women?
>
> As so many people have said here already, walls
> do not make people
> safer; they just lock people in. Of course, some
> people live their
> whole life finding more ways to defend and
> isolate themself; they could
> be called neurotic, albeit they have been
> encouraged to be so (good
> consumers, these neurotics!).

That is a silly statement. Are you going to make
the argument that a person living in a "walled
community" or for that matter in say a condiminium
with limited access, is not safer than someone who
is not?
>
> One of the things no one has brought up here is
> just how almost ALL
> communities in Hawai'i are broken down now -- by
> the AUTOMOBILE!

So, you want to ban automobiles in this State?
>
> You only have to look at how the freeways and
> widened streets are
> barriers to free movement (except by car)!
> People in cars do not
> interact with each other ... they do not create
> 'community connections'
> ... they often do not even SEE what is going on
> in their community!

How can one develop "community connections" if you
cannot get to the "community" that you wish to
interact with in the first place.
>
> When people WALK in their neighborhoods ... to
> the park, to the corner
> store, to see a neighbor, to play with their
> children ... they SEE what
> is going on. The neighborhood is alive with
> watchful eyes. (And, eh,
> much cheapah den dakine 'alarm seestem'!)

Let me see. As I understand the situation in
Hawaii, because of the generally disconnect
between income and the cost of living, most
"family" units are working. If they are working,
how can they be in the park (other than when they
are not working) or "walking" around the
neighborhood? And unless you live in a dense city
environment, the odds are that so-called
neiborhood store ain't very close to you.
>
> How many communities have anyone walking around
> after work or in the
> early mornings? How many even have sidewalks??!
> How may people would
> even enjoy walking in their neighborhoods? How
> many people feel SAFE
> walking across the street (Let's not forget we
> have one of the worst
> pedestrian-death records in the nation!)

Aren't you being just a wee bit contradictory?
>
> The gated communities keep people from walking
> comfortably even OUTSIDE
> the walls. Take a walk next to Andy Anderson's
> horrific Velzyland mess,
> sometime. No fun, eh? Fumes, racing cars, a
> huge wall next to you
> blocking everything. Gated communities also cut
> through natural
> boundries of communities -- much as the freeway
> does. They limit the
> FREE FLOW of the people to and from communities.

I would guess that people who live in gated
communities do not want to walk around outside of
the walls in the first place, that is why they
live in gated communities. Besides, if they do
walk, I would suspect they would be a whole lot
safer that if they walked around anyplsce else.
>
> So, who even KNOWS who lives on their street?
> Who would even be able
> to tell if a stranger was surveying the house
> down the street to rob
> it? Who are the strangers??

I suspect that is pretty much the norm in cities
all around the country today.
>
> Elitism and infestation by "mainland ideas" are
> not our biggest
> problems here ... it is our OWN attitudes -- and
> lack of planning.

Great thought, but the problem it seems to me is
that as soon as some government type presents a
"plan" there will be some in the community who
will jump right up and tell you what is wrong with
the plan. And it does not seem to matter what is
in the plan, someone will be sure to disagree with
the plan.
>
> Get out of your car and demand some
> idewalks -- and some corner
> stores, and parks, and benches, and aesthetic
> landscaping!

You cannot "force" people to open up a business
where they do not want to open up a business.
Unless, you are suggesting we should emulate a
more socialistic model for government. Are you?
>
> Or ... just sit back and watch more walling-up,
> gating-in and
> 'asphalt-ization' of the aina!
>

The way to avoid what you seem to be concerned
about is to limit or perhaps reduce the growth in
the population. But as long as the population
continues to grow, there will be more cars, and as
a result a need to move these cars around. You
remind me of something one of my wiser boses us to
say to us all the time. It is easy for any of us
to say what is wrong with the current situation,
but that does very little good, unless you have a
proposed solution to the perceived problem. So,
what are your solutions?

"Kimo & Leihulunani" <ruaxeljo@champmail.com>
wrote in message
news:1111982703-sch@news.lava.net...
>
>
>>
> It doesn't make sense to have the small picture
> on gated communities, take
> a look at the big picture and you'll see that
> the real sad note is that the
> cost of any of these communities or any other
> real estate in the entire State is well beyond
> the reach of the "local"
> populace, that's why we moved to the Mainland.
> The way prices have been
> going up in the 21st century, in a few years
> there will be no locals, except
> for the few who can inherit and hold on to their
> homes. And those few will
> have a hard time with the skyrocketing costs of
> day to day living. What cost
> paradise?
>

I just have to wonder how true your statement is.
As we drive around Maui, everywhere you look the
builders are putting up new homes. And just as
soon as they are built, they seem to be sold.
Now, I could be wrong, but it is hard to imagine
that there are no locals, or even a minority of
locals who are buying these units, and that "most"
are being sold to outsiders.

On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 04:10:03 -0000, Dktr Sus quoth:
>
> How many communities have anyone walking around after work or in the
> early mornings? How many even have sidewalks??! How may people would
> even enjoy walking in their neighborhoods? How many people feel SAFE
> walking across the street (Let's not forget we have one of the worst
> pedestrian-death records in the nation!)

Not gated community related, but one of the first things I noticed
after moving to Hilo was how few people I see walking or biking.
I walk or bike to work almost every day, and it's extremely rare for me
to encounter anyone else doing the same, and most of those that I do see
are joggers, and second most are really old people out for their morning
walk around the block. Plenty of people zooming around cars, though.
Quite a shock after living in a few places where people are big on
walking, biking and good public transportation systems.

bkr