Possible new prison in Hawaii

On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, tongaloa wrote:

>
> It's nuts.
> 1) Make safe recreational drugs unawful
> 2) Make safe recreational drugs expensive
>
> What do you get.
> -Unsafe, cheap recreational drugs
> -Lots of criminals from '1' above.
> -Lots of criminals because the unsafe cheap drugs
> have a nasty side effect of making people volent.

> -Prison construction programs to suck more money from
> taxpayers who are already dealing with having their
> stuff stolen and their heads bashed.

I thought the problem in Hawaii is that these drugs are
expensive. Addicts can't afford them.

--alvin

"Alvin E. Toda" <aet@lava.net> wrote in message
news:1065500413-sch@news.lava.net...
>
> I thought the problem in Hawaii is that these drugs are
> expensive. Addicts can't afford them.
>
If addicts cannot afford them, that to me would mean we do not have a
durg
problem in Hawaii. Yet, from what I read and hear on TV we do have a
drug
probem in Hawaii. So, do we have a durg problem, or don't we. And who
are
the users, if we do have a problem

On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, tongaloa wrote:

> Addicts can't afford anything so they buy the
> cheapest drugs. They want to get high it's Ice, a
> hobo wants to eat, it's hotdogs or bologna.
> Alcoholic wants a drink, it's Thunderbird, Polly
> Peach aftershave, or Listerine. I'm refering to
> those who are too far gone to generate any income.
>
> Rich people use Cocaine Poor people use Ice.

I guess "cheap" is relative. Ice is still not as cheap
as a bottle of beer?

I guess the problem with your idea is that if we make
one drug more lawful then we should do the same with
all drugs. I believe that there are reports which say
the penalties for ice are more severe than cocaine.

--alvin

On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Jerry Okamura wrote:

> "Alvin E. Toda" <aet@lava.net> wrote in message
> news:1065500413-sch@news.lava.net...
>>
>> I thought the problem in Hawaii is that these drugs
>> are expensive. Addicts can't afford them.
>>
> If addicts cannot afford them, that to me would mean
> we do not have a durg problem in Hawaii. Yet, from
> what I read and hear on TV we do have a drug probem
> in Hawaii. So, do we have a durg problem, or don't
> we. And who are the users, if we do have a problem

It would hardly be so bad if they could. Trouble is
that when they can not afford these drugs, then
everyone suffers to support their habits. Jerry, have
you been keeping up with the news? This is kind of like
basic drugs 101.

--alvin

"tongaloa" <tongaloa@alltel.net> wrote in message
news:1065670516-sch@news.lava.net...
>
>
> Wealthy people who use drugs or are alchoholics don't steal and don't
> fill
> the jails so they are not a problem.
>
> Do you agree? Why, why not?
>
I think your statement is a statement of fact. But, I would think that if
the "State" says that drugs are illegal, then whether you are rich or poor,
both have committed a crime. Alcohol consumption is not illegal. I don't
know why it seems that the law enforcement people seem to target the poorest
of our society for drug use, and not the better off in this society. Maybe
it is because those who are poor also have a tendency to find illegal means
to fund their habit. Maybe it is because it is harder to catch those who
have money. That would be an interesting thing to know. And I would agree
that people who can afford to buy the stuff is most likely not going to
resort to criminal activity to support their habit.

"Alvin E. Toda" <aet@lava.net> wrote in message
news:1065670520-sch@news.lava.net...
>

> >>
> > If addicts cannot afford them, that to me would mean
> > we do not have a durg problem in Hawaii. Yet, from
> > what I read and hear on TV we do have a drug probem
> > in Hawaii. So, do we have a durg problem, or don't
> > we. And who are the users, if we do have a problem
>
> It would hardly be so bad if they could. Trouble is
> that when they can not afford these drugs, then
> everyone suffers to support their habits. Jerry, have
> you been keeping up with the news? This is kind of like
> basic drugs 101.
>
Okay, let's take a steop backwards. How much does it cost to support a
habit.

tongaloa wrote:

> Wealthy people who use drugs or are alchoholics don't steal and don't
> fill the jails so they are not a problem.
>
> Do you agree? Why, why not?

You must be joking! The only reason they don't fill the jails is because
they have enough money to buy their way out. Well, most of the time. I
do know one former head of an S&L, an alcoholic cokehead, who got sloppy
and did some jail time. But most corporate "addicts" get away with much
bigger theft and heavier dope use than the addicted thieves in OCCC or
Halawa.

On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, gino wrote:

> Using pakalolo as an example. Pakalolo is bulkier per
> high than ice or cocaine. It is stronger smelling
> making it more easily detectable. In the same space
> you can carry $200 worth of easily smelled pakalolo,
> you can carry thousands of dollars worth of ice or
> even cocaine, which are harder to detect and people
> become more dependent on... Out to make money selling
> drugs? What are you going to sell? The addict will
> take whatever you give them...

Hey, Gino, I thought ice is cheaper, or cheapest.
"Thousands" of dollars sounds takai to me, and I would
guess, more like cocaine. Aren't we talking about a
drug which is even cheaper than pakalolo because police
crackdowns on growers have made the pakalolo supply
smaller than ever over here in Hawaii??? I mean the
police even go after legitimate growers who have
ailments that require the stuff.

--alvin

On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Jerry Okamura wrote:

> "tongaloa" <tongaloa@alltel.net> wrote in message
> news:1065670516-sch@news.lava.net...
> >
> >
> > Wealthy people who use drugs or are alchoholics
> > don't steal and don't fill the jails so they are
> > not a problem.
> >
> > Do you agree? Why, why not?
> >
> I think your statement is a statement of fact.

Only in the sense of desparate people commiting crimes
to support their own habit. Addiction is itself a
serious health problem, and affects many families as we
saw recently on TV. Ice addicts neglect, or even abuse,
their children. It is a debatable question as to which
drugs cause more or less problems to society.

You viewpoint is narrow, and short-sighted because you
don't consider more reasons that drugs cause problems.

--alvin

"gino" <lancetteg001athawaiidot@> wrote in message
news:1065685801-sch@news.lava.net...
> > Using pakalolo as an example. Pakalolo is bulkier per high than ice or
> cocaine. It is stronger smelling making it more easily detectable.
> In the same space you can carry $200 worth of easily smelled pakalolo,
> you can carry thousands of dollars worth of ice or even cocaine, which
> are harder to detect and people become more dependent on... Out to make
> money selling drugs? What are you going to sell? The addict will take
> whatever you give them...
>

If it's a supply side probem then it's easy to solve...
No prohibition > no profit > no promotion > fewer addicts.
GIVE them whatever drugs they want for a dollar a day or less and we'll see
a decline in the number of new addicts, less crime, and won't need the new
prisons!