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Hawaii Forum This forum is mainly for residents of the state of of Hawaii. However, visitors can learn much from the discussions.

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Old 25th September 2003, 04:20 PM   #1 (permalink)
Alvin E. Toda
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On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Dan Birchall wrote:

> robefortu1@nojunk (RobeFortu1) wrote:
> > I learned something interesting. While it was
> > illegal for Hawaiians to speak their Native
> > language in Hawaii other races such as the Japanese
> > were permitted to teach their language and cultures
> > in private schools, etc... Why were Native
> > Hawaiians singled out during that time forbidden to
> > speak their Native language while others were not?

>
> I believe the word used in policy circles would be
> "assimilation." -Dan


Saw the show too. I think the problem with the Indians
was slightly different from the Hawaiians. The Indians
had to go to boarding schools because they did not live
as close distances to the school. So they lost the
language because they did not speak to their parents in
that language. And their white teachers who did not
speak the native language insisted that the students
speak English. How else could they teach? An immersion
in English was the only way that they could communicate
with the students. This is similar to the way that
other races in Hawaii lost their native language. Since
they were bi-lingual they began speaking to their kids
in English. The private schools really weren't that
good at preserving the native language of non-speakers.

With Hawaiians, yes assimilation seems to dominate,
since there seemed to be a culture clash with the
Christian missionaries. It would have been better for
the early Christian missionaries to just shuck their
New England prudishness and values, and to have gone
native. It's too hot to wear much clothes in the
islands. Those early pictures with victorian clothes
and arms all covered must have been uncomfortable to
shoot.

--alvin

 
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Old 26th September 2003, 01:20 AM   #2 (permalink)
Kalani M.
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glenmiyashiro@m (Glen Miyashiro) wrote in message news:<1064521214-sch@news.lava.net>...
> robefortu1@nojunk (RobeFortu1) wrote in message news:<1064466305-sch@news.lava.net>...
> > Anybody see PBS's "Matters of Race" show?

>
> Didn't see the show - sounds like it was good!


2 of my friends saw it. I didn't even know it was on. Damn!

>
> > Why were Native Hawaiians singled out during that time forbidden to
> > speak their Native language while others were not?


I thought it had to do w/ the fact that plantation owners and other
business men viewed these immigrants as temporary workers, or
something like that.

 
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Old 26th September 2003, 11:50 PM   #3 (permalink)
RobeFortu1
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>> robefortu1@nojunk (RobeFortu1) wrote:
>> > I learned something interesting. While it was
>> > illegal for Hawaiians to speak their Native
>> > language in Hawaii other races such as the Japanese
>> > were permitted to teach their language and cultures
>> > in private schools, etc... Why were Native
>> > Hawaiians singled out during that time forbidden to
>> > speak their Native language while others were not?


>>Dan Birchall wrote:
>> I believe the word used in policy circles would be
>> "assimilation." -Dan

>


AlvinEToda wrote:
>Saw the show too. I think the problem with the Indians
>was slightly different from the Hawaiians. The Indians
>had to go to boarding schools because they did not live
>as close distances to the school. So they lost the
>language because they did not speak to their parents in
>that language. And their white teachers who did not
>speak the native language insisted that the students
>speak English. How else could they teach? An immersion
>in English was the only way that they could communicate
>with the students.


While they're some truth to that they also cut their hair and put them in
Western clothes. Clearly the intent was to take the Indian out of them and make
them more like White people.

This is similar to the way that
>other races in Hawaii lost their native language. Since
>they were bi-lingual they began speaking to their kids
>in English. The private schools really weren't that
>good at preserving the native language of non-speakers.
>
>With Hawaiians, yes assimilation seems to dominate,
>since there seemed to be a culture clash with the
>Christian missionaries. It would have been better for
>the early Christian missionaries to just shuck their
>New England prudishness and values, and to have gone
>native.


Indeed! Hawaii would no doubt be more of a "romantic" paradise than it is now.
;)


 
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Old 26th September 2003, 11:50 PM   #4 (permalink)
Brokem
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Snip Snip Snip
"RobeFortu1" <robefortu1@nojunk> wrote in message
news:1064553608-sch@news.lava.net...
> Yes another dark chapter of American history. It must have been scary to

be
> forced out of one's home into a camp.
> The show touched on a theme where people who look Asian are sometimes

seen as
> being of mixed loyalties. Loyal to their motherlands and loyal to America.
> That was of course the reason for the camps and those ideas are still

around. I
> wonder if we will look back at the camp in Cuba and the detention of
> Arab-Americans the same way we now look back at the internment of Japanese
> Americans during WWII


I think it would depend a lot on who writes this history.......it strikes me
you can get any flavor of history you desire these daze....

Brokem


 
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Old 28th September 2003, 02:50 AM   #5 (permalink)
blah
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do native hawaiians really exist?
i thought that hawaii had been pretty much taken over by filos, japs , etc..

 
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Old 28th September 2003, 06:35 PM   #6 (permalink)
Kalani M.
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lluvia@aussiemail.com.au (blah) wrote in message
news:<1064731807-sch@news.lava.net>...
> do native hawaiians really exist?
> i thought that hawaii had been pretty much taken over by filos, japs , etc..


Yes, they DO exist. I'm writing to you aren't I?



 
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Old 28th September 2003, 07:05 PM   #7 (permalink)
RobeFortu1
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>lluvia@aussiemail.com.au (blah) wrote in message
>news:<1064731807-sch@news.lava.net>...
>> do native hawaiians really exist?
>> i thought that hawaii had been pretty much taken over by filos, japs ,

>etc..


>Kalani exclaimed:
>Yes, they DO exist. I'm writing to you aren't I?


You could be Thunder the cat impersonating a human again. Damn cat.

 
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Old 29th September 2003, 03:05 AM   #8 (permalink)
RobeFortu1
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Lana wrote:

>How can I tell considering that you could be a Pinoy posing as a Hawaiian
>online lol Or better yet... show me your Office of Hawaiian Affairs (OHA)
>I.D. card lmao


Wanna see mine? I was able to get one because I can document my Hawaiian
ancestry, can you? For all we know you
could be a Pinoy or just another Usenet
kook. lmao

 
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Old 29th September 2003, 05:05 PM   #9 (permalink)
Kalani M.
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robefortu1@nojunk (RobeFortu1) wrote in message news:<1064819104-sch@news.lava.net>...
> Lana wrote:
>
> >How can I tell considering that you could be a Pinoy posing as a Hawaiian
> >online lol Or better yet... show me your Office of Hawaiian Affairs (OHA)
> >I.D. card lmao

>
> Wanna see mine? I was able to get one because I can document my Hawaiian
> ancestry, can you? For all we know you
> could be a Pinoy or just another Usenet
> kook. lmao


lmao She is against that Robert. When I told her about mine, she
went ballastic! *L*

 
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Old 29th September 2003, 05:50 PM   #10 (permalink)
RobeFortu1
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>robefortu1@nojunk (RobeFortu1) wrote:
>> I learned something interesting. While it was illegal for
>> Hawaiians to speak their Native language in Hawaii other
>> races such as the Japanese were permitted to teach their
>> language and cultures in private schools, etc... Why were
>> Native Hawaiians singled out during that time forbidden to
>> speak their Native language while others were not?


Dan Birchall replied:

>I believe the word used in policy circles would be "assimilation."


That sounds logical but then why weren't
others expected to give up their mother
language and assimilate as well?


 
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