Istanbul safe?

Can anyone tell me if you think it's safe for Americans to visit
Istanbul these days?

On 18 May 2004 05:25:15 -0700, Larry wrote:

> Can anyone tell me if you think it's safe for Americans to visit
> Istanbul these days?

Safe in what sense?

Probably the most dangerous thing there will be crossing a road or driving
around in an taxi ;-)

If you are worried about the bombings - well, estimate that risk for
yourself, how likely it will be that you personally will be affectet by a
blast going off somewhere in a city as big as Istanbul...I would consider
the likelyhood very,very low.

Crimewise it's safer than most places in the US.

Regards,

Frank

"Frank Hucklenbroich" <Hucklenbroich01@> skrev i melding
news:v6ueoavgoc7i$.1tqpjtap4f4t9$.dlg@40tude.net.. .
> Safe in what sense?
>
> Probably the most dangerous thing there will be crossing a road or driving
> around in an taxi ;-)
>

Hi.

I second that. The taxi trip from the airport to the city centre is more
often than not not for the fainthearted. A serious number of taxi-drivers
seem to suffer from some kind of rally-driver complex, yavasla lütfen
(please slow down) sometimes help.

Also there are a few things one should be aware of which would make the stay
safer:

- markings for pedestrian crossings (zebra stripes) are only for decoration
purposes and serve no useful purpose whatsoever. Do not expect that cars
will stop at a pedestrian crossing, they never (!) will.

- traffic lights are respected. All the time in my experience.

- pedestrian streets in Turkey mean fewer cars, not 'no cars'.

- if you drive yourself, expect the unexpected from other drivers at all
times.

About taxis:

99,99% of the drivers are honest and drive with the meter switched on, GEZE
rate during night and GUNDUZ during daytime. There is a small minority that
hang around tourist places such as Dolmabache and Haghia Sophia that hustle
for tourists which they cheat by quoting a crazy price and refuse to switch
on the meter. Never take a taxi that is parked at any of these locations,
stop one instead that happens to drive past. Taxis are everywhere, and a
free one will always come along in a few seconds or at most a few minutes.
Even in the middle of the night. I was waiting at Sultanahmet at 4AM
Saturday about 4 weeks for a coach to airport, and during the five minutes
or so that I waited at least ten taxis stopped and asked if I needed a taxi
to go somewhere.

Apart from the traffic Turkey is in my opinion and experience very, very
safe. Women may get pinched once in a while on crowded tram, it happened to
me on a couple of occasions on the Sirkeci line. Since this took place over
a period over more than two years it could hardly be called a serious
problem.

sylvia

<< USAID officers don't write travel warnings, and to imply that they do calls
into question your knowledge of embassy operations. Extensions are very
uncommon these days. I can't think of anyone on a 4-year tour who
participates in writing travel warnings.
>>

The fact of the matter is that USAID officers do have input into travel warnngs
because of their (usually) extensive in-country travel. I never said they wrote
them.

One would have to know literally hundreds, if not thousands, of employees to
make that last statement. Again, writing them is different from input. Again,
the fact is that they have input from a great many poeple and the final product
is signed off on by the Emergency Action Committee and the Chief of Mission.
BTW, that Committee has USAID director on it.

<< Maybe in Paris. >>

I think you have me confused with someone else. Makes one wonder.

<< Apparently it provides quite a bit more than does just posting anonymously
in a newsgroup >>

That doesn't anwer anything I wrote. Most writers to these groups are
anonymous- so what?

<< Duh. Nor do "most" embassy employees participate in the vehicle maintenance
process. >>

"Duh" is what my 14 year old daughter says.

<< > That is evident by your reference to DC "lawyers" writing them, which
> could not be further from the truth- a fact which you don't even deny. >>

This statement of MINE is unchallenged. It also has the advantage of being
true. You clearly said travel warnings are written by Washington lawyers. That
is false and the traveling public should be told that.

For those interested in the facts, the travel warnings are originally drafted
by consular and security officers, the people who have the day-to-day contacts
with victims of crime and law enforcement organizations. Consular officers take
reports directly from victims, provide information to them, and, unfortunately,
often handle final disposition when there is a death. Security officers and
others maintain extremely close liaison with appropriate host country agencies.
They track crime patterns which are fed into a computer data base.

This is an important issue, especially for the inexperienced traveler. The
allegation that travel warnings are written by lawyers in Washington is
demonstrably false. I urge any board contributor who lives or travels overseas,
if you doubt my account, to ask a consular officer who writes the warnings.

Travelers may choose to ignore the warnings or just take them as a rough guide.
But, they should at least be properly understood. If you prefer to just poll
other travelers, go right ahead.

And, yes, I have written travel warnings and I know whereof I speak.

In the interest of accuracy, I want to add the following to my other two posts.

In a minority of cases (so far), travel warnings may result from information
developed from OUTSIDE the affected country. For instance, an Al Quaeda
prisoner may provide information about a terrorist attack planned for that
country.

In such cases, the warning would probably be written at the Washington level,
but by substantive, operational officers and analysts, not lawyers. It would be
vetted by the US embassy in the named country (assuming time permits).

I also want to add another way of verifying my points. Any reader who is
associated with a major US company with significant overseas interests, is
invited to inquire with that company's security office and ask about their
membership in OSAC- the Overseas Security Advisory Board which was created by
Secretary of State Schultz. OSAC has what is called the Electronic Bulletin
Board based on essntially the same information that is used by embassies to
produce travel warnings. Companies make key decisions on their overseas
operations and travel by employees based on that information. These people are
not fools and know what they are doing.

There is rarely unanimity when it comes to the detailed content of a travel
warning, but the general thrust represents the best judgment of peope on the
ground with extensive and ongoing contacts. Unlike the original post, I have
included sufficient detail in mine so that anyone interested can check my
assertions.

Bottom line: travel warnings produced by long-term experts in the country
concerned are worthy of respectful attention, even if one chooses not to accept
their conclusions. Those who prefer to sit by a hotel pool and opine are much
less credible in my view.