Venice's plight

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 18:00:40 +0100, d4g4h4.uk (David Horne, _the_
chancellor (*)) wrote:

>Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 13:12:30 +0100, d4g4h4.uk (David Horne, _the_
>> chancellor (*)) wrote:
>[]
>> >I find car noise appalling too, but most of us don't live under flight
>> >paths- we do however tend to live closer to roads.
>>
>> Some of us are under flight paths and live close to railway lines and
>> motorways. Most of the A'dam region and London are effected by aircraft
>> noise.
>
>I lived under a flightpath for a while in London (Balham), and the car
>noise was more annoying, and more noticeable- the planes are still
>pretty high there- I used to enjoy seeing concorde go over. If you're in
>the area immediately near Heathrow, it's terrible, for sure. I wouldn't
>live there, and plenty of people choose to buy there, and still
>complain.

Some like us bought a house long before aircraft noise became a problem.

I noticed last week that Concorde appeared in an Indy photo montage, that
claimed to show the planes that were supposed to have used Heathrow in one day.
--

Martin

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 21:40:29 +0100, d4g4h4.uk (David Horne, _the_
chancellor (*)) wrote:

>The Reid <mikereidclothing@freedomnames.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Following up to d4g4h4.uk (David Horne, _the_ chancellor
>> (*)) wrote:
>>
>> >I lived under a flightpath for a while in London (Balham), and the car
>> >noise was more annoying, and more noticeable-
>>
>> I lived just up the road, I wouldn't call that under the flightpath,
>
>It's on one of the final approach paths- if it's not under a flightpath,
>then most of London isn't- which sort of proves my point, that most
>people aren't that bothered by the noise.
>
>> i'm more under the flightpath here (City airport).
>
>How far are you away, in miles, from the runway.
>
>> Cars in the street
>> are audible, planes make conversation in the garden a little
>> difficult. Get nearer and its gets much worse.
>>
>> >the planes are still pretty high there- I used to enjoy seeing concorde
>> go over.
>>
>> me too, as it was elegant.
>
>Most aircraft are elegant.
>
>> How did I notice it? The noise.
>>
>> >If you're in the area immediately near Heathrow, it's terrible, for sure.
>> >I wouldn't live there, and plenty of people choose to buy there, and
>> >still complain.
>>
>> So you agree its much worse but its the peoples fault for living
>> there?
>
>I agree it's much worse when you live right next to an airport. For fizz
>sake, I live just a few miles from the main airport here, and rarely
>hear aircraft. I hear cars all the time, practically, as one does in
>cities.

What I hear coming from the motorways at night is the noise of motorbikes
--

Martin

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 21:40:29 +0100, d4g4h4.uk (David Horne, _the_
chancellor (*)) wrote:

>Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 18:00:40 +0100, d4g4h4.uk (David Horne, _the_
>> chancellor (*)) wrote:
>>
>> >Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 13:12:30 +0100, d4g4h4.uk (David Horne, _the_
>> >> chancellor (*)) wrote:
>> >[]
>> >> >I find car noise appalling too, but most of us don't live under flight
>> >> >paths- we do however tend to live closer to roads.
>> >>
>> >> Some of us are under flight paths and live close to railway lines and
>> >> motorways. Most of the A'dam region and London are effected by aircraft
>> >> noise.
>> >
>> >I lived under a flightpath for a while in London (Balham), and the car
>> >noise was more annoying, and more noticeable- the planes are still
>> >pretty high there- I used to enjoy seeing concorde go over. If you're in
>> >the area immediately near Heathrow, it's terrible, for sure. I wouldn't
>> >live there, and plenty of people choose to buy there, and still
>> >complain.
>>
>> Some like us bought a house long before aircraft noise became a problem.
>
>Some people did- but Heathrow has been a busy airport for a long time.
>Also, aircraft from 40 years ago were hellishly noisy compared to today.

There were far less, especially at night.

>Compare the sound of a 727 taking off or landing compared to a 777!

Have you travelled in a 777? I found the noise level sitting a few rows behind
the wing almost unacceptable.

>> I noticed last week that Concorde appeared in an Indy photo montage, that
>> claimed to show the planes that were supposed to have used Heathrow in one
>> day.
>
>One of them is parked there- maybe that counts? :)

The Indy isn't too bright on most subjects nowadays is it?
--

Martin

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 22:27:56 +0100, d4g4h4.uk (David Horne, _the_
chancellor (*)) wrote:

>Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 21:40:29 +0100, d4g4h4.uk (David Horne, _the_
>> chancellor (*)) wrote:
>[]
>> >I agree it's much worse when you live right next to an airport. For fizz
>> >sake, I live just a few miles from the main airport here, and rarely
>> >hear aircraft. I hear cars all the time, practically, as one does in
>> >cities.
>>
>> What I hear coming from the motorways at night is the noise of motorbikes
>
>I don't hear them much- but they're the noisiest, for sure.

It's time that noise emission levels were enforced.
--

Martin

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 22:37:42 +0100, d4g4h4.uk (David Horne, _the_
chancellor (*)) wrote:

>The Reid <mikereidclothing@freedomnames.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Following up to d4g4h4.uk (David Horne, _the_ chancellor
>> (*)) wrote:
>>
>> >> What I hear coming from the motorways at night is the noise of motorbikes
>> >
>> >I don't hear them much- but they're the noisiest, for sure.
>>
>> Normal Breathing 10dB
>> Soft whisper (at 5m) 30dB
>> Normal Conversation 60dB
>> Busy Traffic 70dB
>> Average Factory 80dB
>> Niagra Falls 90dB
>> Aircraft taking off up to 100 dB
>
>Aircraft take off on motorways? Whatever next!

Motor bike with open throttle 120 db
--

Martin

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 22:54:00 +0100, d4g4h4.uk (David Horne, _the_
chancellor (*)) wrote:

>Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 22:27:56 +0100, d4g4h4.uk (David Horne, _the_
>> chancellor (*)) wrote:
>>
>> >Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 21:40:29 +0100, d4g4h4.uk (David Horne, _the_
>> >> chancellor (*)) wrote:
>> >[]
>> >> >I agree it's much worse when you live right next to an airport. For fizz
>> >> >sake, I live just a few miles from the main airport here, and rarely
>> >> >hear aircraft. I hear cars all the time, practically, as one does in
>> >> >cities.
>> >>
>> >> What I hear coming from the motorways at night is the noise of motorbikes
>> >
>> >I don't hear them much- but they're the noisiest, for sure.
>>
>> It's time that noise emission levels were enforced.
>
>I don't understand why they haven't been already.

They used to do them on mopeds here, but that stopped long ago when it was
decided that policemen were really office workers.

>And I just heard a
>motorbike go by, but not even on the road outside my building. :(

The ones I hear at night are on a motorway about a mile away.

When we were on holiday in Brittany we used to hear a guy on a very noisy
motorbike around 01:00 every night. One night there was big bang and the noise
stopped. We saw in a local newspaper that he had died as a result of hitting a
wall at speed.
--

Martin

On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 10:40:44 +0100, d4g4h4.uk (David Horne, _the_
chancellor (*)) wrote:

>The Reid <mikereidclothing@freedomnames.co.uk> wrote:
>[]
>> I'll settle for aircraft being noisier than road traffic.
>
>No one is going to disagree with you there.

I do. Noise levels follow an inverse square law. the noise depends on your
distance from the object. Usually you are substantially nearer to cars than
aircraft.

>But most people will hear
>more car traffic.
>
>> You need
>> decibels if theres an argument. Remember than *perception* is very
>> important to noise nusiance (as opposed to hearing damage).
>
>If you lived next to a motorway (as many people do) you might very well
>go nuts.

JVC are threatening to move their Dutch HQ, if "they" persist in expanding teh
A4 motorway so that it passed within 20 metres of JVC's office windows.

I passed JVC on Sunday and there appears to be almost no gap between the
motorway and the building already.
--

Martin

On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:53:33 +0100, d4g4h4.uk (David Horne, _the_
chancellor (*)) wrote:

>Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote:
>
>[]
>> A developer built an office block over the Amsterdam West A10 motorway ring
>> road, it has stood empty for two years. I'm not surprised
>
>Now I think about it, I know of a supermarket in the Boston area (US)
>that's over a motorway!

There's a complex of restaurants over the A4 near Schiphol.
--

Martin

On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 21:22:04 +0200, Doesn't Frequently Mop
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:

>Make credence recognised that on Wed, 18 Jul 2007 09:23:20 +0100, The
>Reid <mikereidclothing@freedomnames.co.uk> has scripted:
>
>>Following up to Doesn't Frequently Mop
>><deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>>
>>>>Note 160db produces instant perforation of the eardrum.
>>>
>>>Is that to someone who has been subject to a loud rock concert, or a
>>>person who has been sitting in an anechoic chamber for half an hour?
>>
>>i think 160 is *very* loud.
>
>The point is that rapid transients in sounds are far more harmful than
>gentle ones. Like everyone other sense, hearing has the ability to
>adapt to different levels.

The point is that 160db bursts your ear drums.
--

Martin

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 00:10:35 +0100, d4g4h4.uk (David Horne, _the_
chancellor (*)) wrote:

>Martin <me@address.invalid> wrote:

>My norwegian aunt bought a place near Malaga recently. The whole enclave
>is Norwegian, according to my brother who has visited. There are also
>British, German, Dutch enclaves, and so on.

That's another reason not to live there. :-)

> A lot, perhaps most, of the
>people living in these places didn't buy there because they wanted to
>lived next to Spaniards (who've always seemed a nice bunch to me

Of course, some are, I got on very well with two, but not so well with the rest.
Maybe expat Spanish aren't anymore typical than expats from anywhere else.

>) but
>because they wanted a relatively cheap flat/house in a part of Europe
>that was guaranteed good weather most of the year,

Long periods of anything over 25 C does not count as good weather IMO.

>and was easy to
>travel to. I make no comment on that situation, but that's certainly
>what it seems like to me.
>
>I wouldn't want to live in those enclaves, but I've got a soft spot for
>Spain.

People tell me how much they love Lanzarote, we all hated it. Sure the scenery
is dramatic, but so are steel works in a similar way.
--

Martin