Coffee: Coffee grinder (burr type) recommendation?

[Jim]

> Got some responses on rec.food.cooking, but looking for more -
> any specific recommendations?
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>>I've decided to break down and buy a burr grinder, specifically
>>for espresso or maybe the odd cup out of a French press (my drip
>>coffeemaker has an integrated grinder, so I don't need one for
>>day-to-day mug coffee).
>
>
>>Recommendations? I want a decent one, but I don't think I need
>>the best out there. Say, about $200 +/- $50 or so.
>
>
>>Thanks!
>
>

I am by no means an expert, but I researched this issue a few months ago
and bought a Gaggia MDF. WAY BETTER than the previous cheapo blade
type! Consistent results. I bought mine used, it came REEKING like
flavored coffee, so I disassembled and cleaned it. Build quality seems
pretty good.

[Felix]

David (Ross) responds:
> | Unless adjustability is a functional attribute. MDF's can
> | be modified so they'll hold any setting, but I would say
> | that the Super Jolly functions better if neither is modified.
>
> At a given grind level the grind quality is the same.
> Other than grind quality each has advantages [...]
> Adjustability is a toss-up, since the Mazzer's continuous
> adjustability lacks the easy repeatability of the Gaggia's
> detents.

Mazzer's adjustment collar has 100 indentations/protrusions, so
restoring a setting isn't that difficult.

After an eternity, I discovered a refinement to the MDF modification
technique: reassemble with PTFE tape while leaving the pins and
springs in place. Then you have the clicks and aren't forced to use
those settings. (Mark, if I remember you from the VW group, this
modification is for you!)

I agree that the grind quality is similar, but how do you justify your
claim? Sometimes, the proof is in the cup, but this time I'd prefer a
bunch of calibrated screens.

Felix

[Coffee for Connoisseurs]

>- David R.
>I have hands-on experience with all four of these grinders

Me too. And a dozen others. When it comes to espresso grinding, I can tell
the difference between a high end conical burr grinder and a high end flat
burr grinder, the grounds from the conical are cooler. A bit. If you grind a
doserful (>250g) at once.

In domestic situations, the noise from other portions of the process will
swamp any effect that different burr types and configurations may have, once
you're at the level of the MDF or Lux. Differences between these low end
grinders and more expensive professional grinders tend (IMO) to be a matter
of ergonomics, not grind quality.


>>Felix
>>If/when I buy an espresso machine, I plan to feed it with an MDF, even
>>though I own a Super Jolly. So we basically agree.

Until you <DO> buy an espresso machine, you have no way to judge the
quality, or lack of same, of any grinder vs the SJ. The SJ is a dedicated
espresso grinder, built for a single job, which it does pretty well. In my
experience of flat burr grinders, the only non-espresso dedicated grinder
which outperforms it for espresso (and everything else) is the Ditting
KR1403, and the 140mm burrs vs the SJ's 64mm may have something to do with
that. But frankly, I wouldn't want either in my kitchen, they take up too
much space for too little use.

To bring the thread back on topic, my own burr type recommendations in the
price range are Lux conical burrsets or Gaggia MDF/Rocky/Cunill flat
burrsets.

Alan

[Felix]

Alan (@coffeeco.com.au) writes:
> In domestic situations, the noise from other portions
> of the process will swamp any effect that different
> burr types and configurations may have, once you're
> at the level of the MDF or Lux.

Indeed. Even experienced tasters will have bad days, and report
differences that are hard to explain.

> Until you <DO> buy an espresso machine, you have
> no way to judge the quality, or lack of same, of any
> grinder vs the SJ. The SJ is a dedicated espresso
> grinder, built for a single job, which it does pretty well.

No. It is what it is, not what someone intended it to be. It grinds
beans for non-espresso applications quite nicely, and can be evaluated
in those contexts. This point is especially apt given the context of
this discussion. The original poster's query referred to "the odd cup
out of a French press."

Felix

[Felix]

David (Ross) writes:
> | > I simply don't think that the fact that I haven't done
> | > this kind of testing does not mean I am not permitted
> | > to assert that they have comparable grind quality.
> |
> | You can assert anything, and others are free to disagree.
>
> The problem is that you jumped in disagreeing not with
> my assertion, but with my gounds (sorry!) for making
> that assertion. In fact, you even agreed that the grind
> quality was similar.

Grind quality is comparable and similar, but your original assertions
(May 17, two articles) were much stronger. You said the MDF and Super
Jolly have "the same" grind quality.

> As far as I can tell you just wanted to instigate an
> argument about my judgment

My opinion about these grinders was/is tentative, because as Alan
mentioned, the presence of other factors makes it difficult to isolate
the difference between grinders via taste tests. I think your
assertion of equality should be supported by a more convincing body of
evidence. If you had presented your conclusion as an opinion, or made
the weaker assertion about similarity, there would be nothing to argue
about. On the other hand, you claimed that the MDF and Super Jolly
differ only in terms of factors such as ergonomics and durability. Has
anyone agreed? Does anyone?

Felix

[Barry Jarrett]

On Tue, 29 May 2007 09:53:33 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote:

>I'd avoid the Baratza because of the geared drive system.
>

why?

direct drive home grinders spin too fast.

[shane]

I have a Baratza Virtuoso. The grind is not consistent enough for
espresso. My unscientific opinion is, I think it is the plastic burr
mounts. Also the fine adjustment does not seem fine enough for
espresso, the clicks are too far apart. After A couple of months of
use I decided that the Virtuoso did not do significantly better than
my antique hand grinder for espresso. I now use a Mazzer Mini for
espresso.

Shane

On May 31, 3:32 pm, Barry Jarrett <b...@rileys-coffee.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 29 May 2007 09:53:33 -0700, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >I'd avoid the Baratza because of the geared drive system.
> >
>
> why?
>
> direct drive home grinders spin too fast.

[Barry Jarrett]

>Curious, how fast is too fast?

dunno.

--barry "just one wafer thin mint"