Argentina and Uruguay

<shaunhaines1978@> wrote in message
news:1151333312.645429.232760@u72g2000cwu. o...

John Cisarik wrote:
> "traveler2007" <s_america_boundm> wrote in message
> news:1151315035.831680.288850@r2g2000cwb. ...
>
> "...I have heard Argentinian Spanish before and it did have hints of
> Italian
> to it. Specifically, I heard an interpreter (from Argentina) refer to
> 'mayo' (the month of May not bread spread) as 'maggio' or 'mah-zhio',
> which
> is more Italian for the same word. I pointed it out to her and she seemed
> miffed as if that is how the word is really pronounced...."
>
> No, that is not a hint of Italian, and I can understand an Argentine's
> being
> miffed by your thinking so.
>
> In Buenos Aires, the sound of y and ll is very much like the sh of
> English,
> so that mayo and llamar will sound very much like MAH-show and shah-MAR.
> In
> the northwest of the country that sound mutates to a very strong sound
> like
> the French j in jamais, so "May" will sound like MAH-zhow.
>
> So the Argentine was miffed because you were mistaking a "normal" sound in
> Argentine Spanish with an Italian word; in the case of "mayo," the month,
> the similarity to the "maggio" of Italian is purely coincidental.
>
> It is the rhythm of Argentine Spanish -- a kind of singing to it, with
> some
> syllables prolonged, which is not common to the Spanish of other
> countries -- that makes it sound similar to Italian.

John,

I have kind of a far out theory that this pronunciation might have
something to do with the heavy presence of Portuguese speakers in
Buenos Aires in its early days, because that "ll" and "y" pronunciation
in Buenos Aires is like Portuguese...I'm not explaining this properly,
how about an example...the words for key in Spanish and
Portuguese..."llave" and "chave." Aside from the ending vowel sound,
the words are pronounced identically...or "my name is" - "me llamo" and
"me chamo." Again, the vowel sounds are a bit different, but that "ch"
in portuguese is pronounced the same way as the "ll" in Buenos Aires.

Anyway...can anyone confirm or deny this, or lend anymore insight into
the porteño pronunciation of "ll" and "y?"

Shaun

I don't know that your theory is necessarily "far out," because I don't know
how much Portuguese influence there was in Buenos Aires. My recollection is
that Colonia del Sacramento, across the river in Uruguay, was at one time a
Portuguese colony, so it would not surprise me if your theory were correct.

The Lonely Planet has a Web site of various forums, one of which is called
"Speaking in Tongues." People on that forum deal with these kinds of topics,
so you might want to post your theory there to see if someone can confirm it
(or shoot it down).

Also - visit La Virtura Tango (link in my site). It's an authentic
tango hall with lessons of all levels, or just visit and watch.

Don't go to a really expensive "tourist" tango show.


traveler2007 wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am new to this group.
>
> We are taking a trip to both Argentina and Uruguay in February 2007.
> The exact itinerary is not finalized.
>
> We will be staying in Buenos Aires, Montevideo and Punta del Este.
>
> Has anyone here been to these places and do you have any
> recommendations for restaurants, etc? Any particular places to avoid?
>
> We will be visiting the falls in Argentina but avoiding the trips to
> the ranches to see the gauchos.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rich

It's been a long time so I won't try to speak to particular restaurants, but
I have to say that we have long considered Uruguayan beef to be the finest
in the world. It's prevalent too, and sometimes you can order pasta and
they still put a small steak on your plate. Splurge on a Chateaubriand for
two in a fancy place, and it will be a meal you'll remember always.

Keith

"traveler2007" <s_america_boundm> wrote in message
news:1151275679.509228.207930@c74g2000cwc. o...
> Hello,
>
> I am new to this group.
>
> We are taking a trip to both Argentina and Uruguay in February 2007.
> The exact itinerary is not finalized.
>
> We will be staying in Buenos Aires, Montevideo and Punta del Este.
>
> Has anyone here been to these places and do you have any
> recommendations for restaurants, etc? Any particular places to avoid?
>
> We will be visiting the falls in Argentina but avoiding the trips to
> the ranches to see the gauchos.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rich
>

> I don't know of a German-speaking dairy area in Argentina, but there is a
> town in Córdoba province called something like Villa Belgrano where there
> are lots of Argentines of German descent. There is an Oktoberfest there that
> is a popular destination for Argentine tourists. I was there some years ago
> with an Argentine cousin and his girlfriend, also an Argentine, and the
> three of us were the only ones speaking Spanish in a cafe in that town; all
> the other customers were speaking German.

I may have gotten the dairy part wrong, but the place you described is
probably what I saw on television.

>
> We will be staying in Buenos Aires, Montevideo and Punta del Este.
>
> Has anyone here been to these places and do you have any
> recommendations for restaurants, etc? Any particular places to avoid?
>
>
Personally, I would skip Punta del Este...if you like Miami Beach
you'll like it. Definitely go to Colonia.

SusieQ wrote:
> Personally, I would skip Punta del Este...if you like Miami Beach
> you'll like it. Definitely go to Colonia.

One of the reasons we are interested in going to Punta del Este is that
it is internationally known and we do not personally know anyone who
has been there yet.

Joseph Coulter wrote:
> >
> > I'm flying that far to seek out cheap accommodations and lonely
> > beaches.
>
> You will find neither of these in Punta del Este you will find a lot of
> people (and even more big boats) the people by and large are beautiful,
> the boats big and shiny and the city a mecca of consumerism. Although I
> did manage to capture a tranquil scene
>
Typo on my part.

I meant to say I'm NOT flying that far to seek out cheap accommodations
and lonely beaches. It was meant to contrast what the other poster was
suggesting.

I guess I should have previewed before clicking 'post message'.

> >One of the reasons we are interested in going to Punta del Este is that
> >it is internationally known and we do not personally know anyone who
> >has been there yet.
> >
>
> Can you post your impressions here? I am considering going there next
> year..
>
> I'm thinking
>

Well I really have no preconceived notions about what it will be like.
I am of ther personal impression that a few countries aside, like
Colombia, Ecuador and Peru, (and a couple of others) Latin America is a
relatively safe destination for American international travelers who do
not have a limitless travel budget. While most of Europe is safe, the
Euro is a killer so it is expensive.

After we went to Costa Rica, I know about a dozen people who went. I
am not taking credit for that, it was just a destination that was
becoming more popular. I do not know anyone who has traveled to
Uruguay and very few to Argentina. The exchange rates are very
favorable and I like to travel off-season (meaning the winters of the
Northeast).

I am not really into glitz and glamour but it would be nice to go
somewhere that is of international standards and is fairly remote. The
beauty of such a place is the mixture of people.

The beach itself is of secondary concern. I don't get to the beach
much here in the summer because it is just 'there'. Finding a warm
spot in February is paradise. Winter getaways to the warmth are always
relaxing and it will give us plenty to talk about. Take lots of
pictures and share stories.

Not sure this is exactly what you were looking for in terms of
impressions, but that's what I'm thinking.

Rich

Senoritas y snors, Buenso Aires is a ciudad, mas peligroso, multas
pickpokers, y putas!
"traveler2007" <s_america_boundm> wrote in message
news:1151534564.252693.168230@x69g2000cwx. o...
>> >One of the reasons we are interested in going to Punta del Este is that
>> >it is internationally known and we do not personally know anyone who
>> >has been there yet.
>> >
>>
>> Can you post your impressions here? I am considering going there next
>> year..
>>
>> I'm thinking
>>
>
> Well I really have no preconceived notions about what it will be like.
> I am of ther personal impression that a few countries aside, like
> Colombia, Ecuador and Peru, (and a couple of others) Latin America is a
> relatively safe destination for American international travelers who do
> not have a limitless travel budget. While most of Europe is safe, the
> Euro is a killer so it is expensive.
>
> After we went to Costa Rica, I know about a dozen people who went. I
> am not taking credit for that, it was just a destination that was
> becoming more popular. I do not know anyone who has traveled to
> Uruguay and very few to Argentina. The exchange rates are very
> favorable and I like to travel off-season (meaning the winters of the
> Northeast).
>
> I am not really into glitz and glamour but it would be nice to go
> somewhere that is of international standards and is fairly remote. The
> beauty of such a place is the mixture of people.
>
> The beach itself is of secondary concern. I don't get to the beach
> much here in the summer because it is just 'there'. Finding a warm
> spot in February is paradise. Winter getaways to the warmth are always
> relaxing and it will give us plenty to talk about. Take lots of
> pictures and share stories.
>
> Not sure this is exactly what you were looking for in terms of
> impressions, but that's what I'm thinking.
>
> Rich
>

clint wrote:
> Senoritas y snors, Buenso Aires is a ciudad, mas peligroso, multas
> pickpokers, y putas!

gracias para la informacion Clint. donde en B.A. estan las putas? yo
quiero saber. y hay otros crimens ud. puede informarnos, como donde se
venden drogas?

cuales son los lugares mas interesante en B.A.?

gracias