Working in Venezuela

On 26 Apr 2004 06:24:26 -0700, ychen@bmwe30.net (Yaofeng) wrote:

>professionals in Venezuela? Do you how much an engineer is paid on
>average compared to the US?

Do you how much? Let's talk dollars, YaoFeng!

Yet another ignoramus....

wester@laway.net wrote in message news:<57eq80lg0g848fmlidin951agm447v9fca@>. ..
> On 26 Apr 2004 06:24:26 -0700, ychen@bmwe30.net (Yaofeng) wrote:
>
> >professionals in Venezuela? Do you how much an engineer is paid on
> >average compared to the US?
>
> Do you how much? Let's talk dollars, YaoFeng!
>
> Yet another ignoramus....

Will you believe me if I tell you?

We already know high management in Petrovesa gets less than $50,000 a
year prior to Chavez took power. How much do you thing they are
getting now? Go to Venezuela. No one is stopping you.

I won't even go there for vacation. Not until the political situation
has stabilized.

VIVA CHAVEZ!
I'm an italian traveller that is come back just 1 week ago from a 2 months
trip in Venezuela.
Arnego2 is true! Nobody (foreigner) can talk only reading what the
newspapers write or watching what the televisions show about Venezuela and
Chavez.
If anyone can spend some time in that country, talk to the people (of left
and right political side), then can understand better what is happening now
in Venezuela. And who is right!
My best regards to Arnego2.
Hasta luego!

Pime wrote:
> VIVA CHAVEZ!
> I'm an italian traveller that is come back just 1 week ago from a 2 months
> trip in Venezuela.
> Arnego2 is true! Nobody (foreigner) can talk only reading what the
> newspapers write or watching what the televisions show about Venezuela and
> Chavez.
> If anyone can spend some time in that country, talk to the people (of left
> and right political side), then can understand better what is happening now
> in Venezuela. And who is right!
> My best regards to Arnego2.
> Hasta luego!
>
>

So typically, leftist Europeans seem happy to blind themselves to the
horrible behavior of leftist leaders in other countries. You associate
leftist ideas with your own social security net, rather than with the
reality that exists elsewhere.

You have the luxury to be leftist, since you are so comfortable in your
wealth--which includes 2 month vacations by the way. What a shame that
you could visit Venezuela for 2 months (a place where I have a great
deal of family, some of whom used to support Chavez, but now despise
him) and remain completely oblivious to the sad reality of life there.

Dear Amy,
of course I can't say that I know everything about Venezuela, his
government, his President, etc.
I only said that, staying 2 months there, i had the great (for me)
opportunity to talk (thanks to my spanish language) to many many people, of
left side and right side. Booth are true for some things, and wrong for
other things. But, after to have talken to them, I have now my idea about
that government. It could be wrong, or also right. It doesn't matter, but I
have an idea, and I think I have an idea more complete than other foreign
people that only read some (bad) news in the newspaper.
Do you know that the most of the newspapers, televisions and media are
controlled by the opposition, in Venezuela?
Do you know that the economy is very down in almost ALL the Latin America,
and that Chavez can't has all the faults for the present crisis?
Do you know what Chavez has done for the poor people (don't you think only
about the economy, the money, the relationship with US, etc).
This talk could be very long.
Regards

Pime wrote:
> Dear Amy,
> of course I can't say that I know everything about Venezuela, his
> government, his President, etc.
> I only said that, staying 2 months there, i had the great (for me)
> opportunity to talk (thanks to my spanish language) to many many people, of
> left side and right side. Booth are true for some things, and wrong for
> other things. But, after to have talken to them, I have now my idea about
> that government. It could be wrong, or also right. It doesn't matter, but I
> have an idea, and I think I have an idea more complete than other foreign
> people that only read some (bad) news in the newspaper.
> Do you know that the most of the newspapers, televisions and media are
> controlled by the opposition, in Venezuela?

During one of the last marches against Chavez, when I was there, Chavez
replaced all the live news feed with images of himself giving his usual
bombastic speech. In case you didn't notice, this happens often.

> Do you know that the economy is very down in almost ALL the Latin America,
> and that Chavez can't has all the faults for the present crisis?

Dig a little deeper. The latest unemployed are some friends and
relatives of mine, who when they confirmed that they signed the recall
petitions (after Chavez challenged the signatures),were promptly fired
from their jobs--even private sector jobs, as their bosses (who also
signed the petitions but were then afraid to admit it) were physically
harassed by the Circulos. A friend of us who is a musician in an
orchestra in Caracas was literally dragged off (no reason was ever given
except that he confirmed signing the petition) by Chavez's thugs and
physically tortured. It's nice that you had a lovely vacation traveling
around, but your comments reflect Chavez's well-known and tiresome
propaganda.


> Do you know what Chavez has done for the poor people (don't you think only
> about the economy, the money, the relationship with US, etc).

Yes indeed. He has made them poorer and more desperate than ever.

I think you see and hear only what you want to see and hear, which is
what I said in my last post.

One thing you might consider, by the way, is that opposition to Chavez
does not translate into support for the prior administration. I have
noticed over the past years that many Europeans swallow hook, line and
sinker Chavez's propaganda that anyone who is against him is an
"oligarch" who wants a return to the prior government.

Pime wrote:
> VIVA CHAVEZ!

By the way, do you also say "Viva Castro"? After all, Fidel is Hugo's
mentor and Chavez is trying to turn Venezuela into Cuba. Don't believe
it? Listen to some of his speeches with that great Spanish of yours.

"Pime" <pime@tiscali.it> wrote in message news:<c731ve$mft$1@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>...
> Dear Amy,
> of course I can't say that I know everything about Venezuela, his
> government, his President, etc.
> I only said that, staying 2 months there, i had the great (for me)
> opportunity to talk (thanks to my spanish language) to many many people, of
> left side and right side. Booth are true for some things, and wrong for
> other things. But, after to have talken to them, I have now my idea about
> that government. It could be wrong, or also right. It doesn't matter, but I
> have an idea, and I think I have an idea more complete than other foreign
> people that only read some (bad) news in the newspaper.
> Do you know that the most of the newspapers, televisions and media are
> controlled by the opposition, in Venezuela?
> Do you know that the economy is very down in almost ALL the Latin America,
> and that Chavez can't has all the faults for the present crisis?
> Do you know what Chavez has done for the poor people (don't you think only
> about the economy, the money, the relationship with US, etc).
> This talk could be very long.
> Regards

Please enlighten us.

arnego2 wrote:
> Originally posted by Amy
>
>>
>
> Hi Amy,
> do you
> think that the opinion of your friend is the truth?
> It is an opinion and
> everyone as the right to have one, don´t you think?
> Best regards
> Arnego2
>
>
What happened to my friend is not "opinion." Only a Chavista would say
that being dragged off and tortured is an opinion.

arnego2 wrote:
> Originally posted by Amy
>
>>were promptly fired
>>from
>
> their jobs--even private sector jobs, as their bosses (who also
>
>>signed
>
> the petitions but were then afraid to admit it)
> Well Chavez
> had a coup against him.

Yes, because his Circulos FIRED on a peaceful march and KILLED people.
The thugs were caught red-handed (on TV) doing it, and were arrested.
Everyone knows who they are, and after Chavez released them (without any
trials or justice) they even went on TV to apologize. That is how the
coup started. When the army saw that, they turned against the Circulos
and Chavez. Have you had your head stuck in the sand for the last few
years?

> How would you react if something does that to
> you and them go ahead to firn against you

So arresting innocent people and torturing them is OK, because you don't
like their political views? So harassing people's employers so that
they fire you is OK with you?

> and don´nt forget the styrike
> of 63 days.

So you are saying that people striking gives Chavez the right to harass
and torture?

There would have been no strike if he would have allowed the referendum,
which is allowed according to his own constitution. He prevented that
from going forth, and so the strike happened. During the strike, he
promised to allow the referendum, but as soon as the strike was over, he
has done everything he can to prevent the vote, including having people
fired from their jobs and harassed. He has behaved like a dictator and
a megalomaniac.