DO NOT VISIT TRINIDAD...THINGS BAD

> I thought that for a second, *EXCEPT*.... Isn't .tt the Trinidad &
> Tobago area? The link is real and points to a .TT @ddress. Though it
> looks like he/she is away at school (Boston University), this sounds
> like a concerned citizen and more likely to be "in the know" than most
> of us (I don't know your situation).

Yes, the tt stands for Trinidad & Tobago, but that doesn´t prove that cyb is
a TT sitizen, and be "in the know" does only mean that "cyb" has been
reading about in in the paper, or heard about it from somebody else, or, if
he/she has been in TT during the past few weeks, seen in on TV. My
situation, I´ve been visiting Trinidad & Tobago since 1989, in all about 15
times. I´ve have many very good friends both in Trinidad as well in Tobago,
I´m in touch with them more and I´m reading the paper via the Internet every
day so I´m quite well updated.

> By your own logic, visitors are usually rich enough. Heck, most of us
> could pull US$300/day or more from the ATM machines. I don't believe
> that someone whose morals allow them to kidnap is always going to stop
> short of tourists.
>
> And cruising sailors have reported high crime in the area. Not
> kidnapping or violent crimes that I recall, but a lot of theft.

Visitors are for sure rich enough compared with locals, but the fact is that
all kidnapping has TT local business peoples or others who are supposed to
have a lot of money, as the target. They, the kidnappers, aren´t stupied,
they know very well that they would get really big problem if they would go
for a visitor. And all who comes by a crusier aren´t rich eighter. As far I
know, no visitors has been kidnapped. And crime in the harbour area isn´t
something new in T&T, or any other country with a lot of visitors via a
harbour, or into other caribbean islands visited by crusiers.

> The southern Caribbean isn't as safe as it used to be.

True, but it also depend on the visitor if their visit is safe or not.
During 1989-1992 I´d spend a lot of time in Trinidad, both in the central
part as well the area outside PoS, La Saiva Maraval. I use to walk from La
Saiva across the mountains to Maracas Beach and Las Cuevas, more than once.
Doing that in now would not be to recommend for someone who don´t use to be
there. At that time also I´d go by bike on smaller roads countryside around
Chauguanas but I´d never do that after sun set. That was dangerous already
at that time.

Tobago is different, it safe and quiet. But it also depend on the visitor
too if their vacation will be safe or not. I´ve sometimes met visitors, both
males and femals, who seems to left their common sense at home. Sooner or
later, in one way or an other, they always get in trouble.

Ronald

"Ronald Olsson" <ronald.olsson@chello.se> wrote in message
news:WmBmb.2424$2o2.17947@amstwist00...
> > I thought that for a second, *EXCEPT*.... Isn't .tt the Trinidad &
> > Tobago area? The link is real and points to a .TT @ddress. Though it
> > looks like he/she is away at school (Boston University), this sounds
> > like a concerned citizen and more likely to be "in the know" than most
> > of us (I don't know your situation).
>
> Yes, the tt stands for Trinidad & Tobago, but that doesn´t prove that cyb
is
> a TT sitizen, and be "in the know" does only mean that "cyb" has been
> reading about in in the paper, or heard about it from somebody else, or,
if
> he/she has been in TT during the past few weeks, seen in on TV. My
> situation, I´ve been visiting Trinidad & Tobago since 1989, in all about
15
> times. I´ve have many very good friends both in Trinidad as well in
Tobago,
> I´m in touch with them more and I´m reading the paper via the Internet
every
> day so I´m quite well updated.
>
> > By your own logic, visitors are usually rich enough. Heck, most of us
> > could pull US$300/day or more from the ATM machines. I don't believe
> > that someone whose morals allow them to kidnap is always going to stop
> > short of tourists.
> >
> > And cruising sailors have reported high crime in the area. Not
> > kidnapping or violent crimes that I recall, but a lot of theft.
>
> Visitors are for sure rich enough compared with locals, but the fact is
that
> all kidnapping has TT local business peoples or others who are supposed to
> have a lot of money, as the target. They, the kidnappers, aren´t stupied,
> they know very well that they would get really big problem if they would
go
> for a visitor. And all who comes by a crusier aren´t rich eighter. As far
I
> know, no visitors has been kidnapped. And crime in the harbour area isn´t
> something new in T&T, or any other country with a lot of visitors via a
> harbour, or into other caribbean islands visited by crusiers.
>
> > The southern Caribbean isn't as safe as it used to be.
>
> True, but it also depend on the visitor if their visit is safe or not.
> During 1989-1992 I´d spend a lot of time in Trinidad, both in the central
> part as well the area outside PoS, La Saiva Maraval. I use to walk from La
> Saiva across the mountains to Maracas Beach and Las Cuevas, more than
once.
> Doing that in now would not be to recommend for someone who don´t use to
be
> there. At that time also I´d go by bike on smaller roads countryside
around
> Chauguanas but I´d never do that after sun set. That was dangerous already
> at that time.
>
> Tobago is different, it safe and quiet. But it also depend on the visitor
> too if their vacation will be safe or not. I´ve sometimes met visitors,
both
> males and femals, who seems to left their common sense at home. Sooner or
> later, in one way or an other, they always get in trouble.
>
> Ronald

This is what the US State Department has to say about Trinbago as of October
25 2003:

````````````````````````
SAFETY AND SECURITY: In general, Trinidad and Tobago is considered safe.
Non-violent demonstrations occur on occasion, but civil disorder is not
considered a threat. As a common-sense precaution, American citizens
traveling to or residing in Trinidad and Tobago should avoid large crowds
and demonstrations.

CRIME: Visitors should exercise normal caution and good judgment when
visiting Trinidad and Tobago. The U.S. Embassy advises visitors to exercise
caution when traveling from Trinidad's Piarco Airport, especially after
dark, because of incidents involving armed robbers trailing arriving
passengers from the airport and then accosting them outside the gates of
their residences. Holiday periods, especially Christmas and Carnival, often
see an increase in crime.

Violent crimes, including assault, kidnapping and murder, have involved
foreign residents and tourists, including U.S. citizens. Since the beginning
of 2002, there has been an increase in kidnappings for ransom. While U.S.
citizens have not been targeted, at least one American citizen has fallen
victim to kidnappers. Burglaries of private residences are common. Robbery
is a risk, particularly in urban areas. Visitors should avoid wearing
expensive jewelry or displaying large amounts of money in public. In some
cases, robberies of Americans have turned violent after the victim resisted
handing over valuables.

Visitors should not travel alone at night on deserted beaches or in poorly
lit areas, such as scenic overlooks.
Valuables left unattended on beaches and in other public places are
vulnerable to theft. Visitors should avoid neighborhoods known for high
crime rates. When in doubt, visitors should consult the establishment where
they are staying. Particular care is called for at isolated villas that may
have fewer security arrangements.

The U.S. Embassy also urges caution in the use of the small buses or vans in
Trinidad, known as "Maxi Taxis" (full-size inter-city buses are usually
safe). These have been linked to petty crime and serious traffic accidents
(see below). Taxis available at the major hotels or through pre-arranged
pick-ups are generally safe and reliable. Taxis authorized to pick up
passengers will have the letter 'H' as the first letter on their license
plates. Motor vehicle occupants should keep all windows closed and car doors
locked. Valuables including travel documents should not be left unattended
in parked cars, especially in parking lots as several thefts have been
reported.

Police are cooperative, but they are often hampered by lack of resources.
Americans who are victims of crime are encouraged to contact the police as
well as the American Citizens Services Unit of the U.S. Embassy Consular
Section.

"Miguel Cruz" <mnc@admin.u.nu> wrote in message
news:OfLmb.11358$Ui3.9813@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
> Da Parrot-chick <just@sk.me> wrote:
> > This is what the US State Department has to say about Trinbago as of
October
> > 25 2003:
>
> And here's what the State Department would say about the USA if they ever
> had to write one of their alarmist travel advisories about it:
>
> SAFETY AND SECURITY: The United States is an extremely dangerous country
> with the developed world's highest rates of violent crime. Violent attacks
> against tourists are common in both the cities and rural areas. Visitors
> should carefully consider their need to visit the USA and avoid travel if
at
> all possible.

I doubt very much that the state department would write those few sentences
and leave it at that.

"Miguel Cruz" <mnc@admin.u.nu> wrote in message
news:U80nb.13251$Ui3.7897@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
> Da Parrot-chick <just@sk.me> wrote:
> > "Miguel Cruz" <mnc@admin.u.nu> wrote:
> >> The point is that the warnings are irresponsibly alarmist and a
> >> disservice to travelers. By exaggerating everything to the point of
> >> hysteria they sap the information value completely, failing two groups
of
> >> readers: those who take the warnings at face value and therefore miss
out
> >> on perfectly safe travel, and those who have learned to ignore them and
> >> therefore miss out on legitimate indications of danger.
> >
> > With all due respect Miguel (and as far as I'm concerned your opinions
carry
> > a lot of weight), in this I believe you may be overstating the position
of
> > the State Department. For example, France is the top tourist
destination in
> > the world for at least two years running now, but this is what the State
> > Department has to say about visiting France:
>
> I think their accuracy decreases in parallel with the frequency of
American
> tourist visits to a place. My impression (backed up by personal
experience)
> is that they really don't get out that much.

{erhaps you're right, or they're hainging out in the wrong places.

> France is a well-known destination and two thing militate in favor of a
> relatively mild travel warning:
>
> 1) Enough people go there that if the warnings were alarmist there, there
> would be an immediate an vocal response from the millions of people who
know
> better;
>
> 2) Embassy personnel go out in France and therefore are brought
face-to-face
> with the reality that it's not a scary place.

No scarier than the USA. At least they aren't pouring Coke in the streets.

> Though I have to admit admit that I just now checked the State Dept. pages
> for Syria and Malaysia, two of the world's safest destinations, and was
> encouraged to see that the warnings were far toned down from how I recall
> they'd been described in the past.
>
> miguel

Well, there you have it. Sometimes they're on, and other times no. You're
an experienced traveler, though, and know how to conduct yourself on foreign
soil. People who use the State Department page as their main source of info
probably aren't and don't.