Bikes: Wheel spins on steep uphill trail: tire or technique?

[RobertH]

On May 31, 10:41 pm, "Bill Sornson" <so...@noyb.com> wrote:
> RobertH wrote:
> > On May 31, 12:46 pm, "Bill Sornson" <so...@noyb.com> wrote:
> >> whatsup31...@live.com wrote:
> >>> On May 30, 1:02 pm, "Bill Sornson" <so...@noyb.com> wrote:
> >>>> Might even try reversing the Mutano (don't recall if
> >>>> tread pattern is "one way").
>
> >>> Funny you should mention that. I had the same thought. An
> >>> experienced MTB rider at one bike shop said he did. But a person at
> >>> another bike shop said that since the direction of rotation is
> >>> marked on the tire, that's the way it should be installed. WTB did
> >>> not respond to my email inquiry :-(.
>
> >> Take the palm of your hand and run it over the tread in each
> >> direction. Often you can feel a distinct difference in the "grab" --
> >> although keep in mind that increased traction forward MAY mean a
> >> little less control while braking (skidding more).
>
> >> Bill "sweet spot theory of mtb riding" S.
>
> > The more traction provided by the tire, the less likely it will be to
> > skid under braking.
>
> Apparently you missed the part about directional treads and the effect of
> reversing them.

Okay I see what you were trying to say now.

OP should note that the Mutanoraptor comes in two versions. One is
really a front-specific tire, with a tread pattern reminiscent of the
old Panaracer Dart. It is a really special tire, imo, mainly because
it is quite light for a big tire. I never fell for the Smoke/Dart
combo, but this WTB tire I find extremely nice -- for a front tire. I
would definitely find a different tread pattern for the drive tire.
MotoRaptor for instance.

This message has been brought to you by WTB tires.

[RobertH]

On Jun 1, 6:54*am, jim beam <m...@************> wrote:
> RobertH wrote:
> > On May 31, 10:41 pm, "Bill Sornson" <so...@noyb.com> wrote:
> >> RobertH wrote:
> >>> On May 31, 12:46 pm, "Bill Sornson" <so...@noyb.com> wrote:
> >>>> whatsup31...@live.com wrote:
> >>>>> On May 30, 1:02 pm, "Bill Sornson" <so...@noyb.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> Might even try reversing the Mutano (don't recall if
> >>>>>> tread pattern is "one way").
> >>>>> Funny you should mention that. *I had the same thought. *An
> >>>>> experienced MTB rider at one bike shop said he did. *But a person at
> >>>>> another bike shop said that since the direction of rotation is
> >>>>> marked on the tire, that's the way it should be installed. *WTB did
> >>>>> not respond to my email inquiry :-(.
> >>>> Take the palm of your hand and run it over the tread in each
> >>>> direction. Often you can feel a distinct difference in the "grab" --
> >>>> although keep in mind that increased traction forward MAY mean a
> >>>> little less control while braking (skidding more).
> >>>> Bill "sweet spot theory of mtb riding" S.
> >>> The more traction provided by the tire, the less likely it will be to
> >>> skid under braking.
> >> Apparently you missed the part about directional treads and the effect of
> >> reversing them.
>
> > *Okay I see what you were trying to say now.
>
> > OP should note that the Mutanoraptor comes in two versions. One is
> > really a front-specific tire, with a tread pattern reminiscent of the
> > old Panaracer Dart. It is a really special tire, imo, mainly because
> > it is quite light for a big tire. I never fell for the Smoke/Dart
> > combo, but this WTB tire I find extremely nice -- for a front tire. I
> > would definitely find a different tread pattern for the drive tire.
> > MotoRaptor for instance.
>
> > This message has been brought to you by WTB tires.
>
> two days and it's taken this long to identify tire tread, not just air
> pressure? *you guys evidently don't ride much.
>
> fwiw, continental vertical pro - best all-round mtb tire on the market imo.

I will never buy a Continental tire again. One too many exploded/
unraveled sidewalls. Maybe the mtb tires are better. I'll never know.

[Bill Sornson]

RobertH wrote:
> On Jun 1, 6:54 am, jim beam <m...@************> wrote:
>> RobertH wrote:
>>> On May 31, 10:41 pm, "Bill Sornson" <so...@noyb.com> wrote:
>>>> RobertH wrote:
>>>>> On May 31, 12:46 pm, "Bill Sornson" <so...@noyb.com> wrote:
>>>>>> whatsup31...@live.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On May 30, 1:02 pm, "Bill Sornson" <so...@noyb.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Might even try reversing the Mutano (don't recall if
>>>>>>>> tread pattern is "one way").
>>>>>>> Funny you should mention that. I had the same thought. An
>>>>>>> experienced MTB rider at one bike shop said he did. But a
>>>>>>> person at another bike shop said that since the direction of
>>>>>>> rotation is marked on the tire, that's the way it should be
>>>>>>> installed. WTB did not respond to my email inquiry :-(.
>>>>>> Take the palm of your hand and run it over the tread in each
>>>>>> direction. Often you can feel a distinct difference in the
>>>>>> "grab" -- although keep in mind that increased traction forward
>>>>>> MAY mean a little less control while braking (skidding more).
>>>>>> Bill "sweet spot theory of mtb riding" S.
>>>>> The more traction provided by the tire, the less likely it will
>>>>> be to skid under braking.
>>>> Apparently you missed the part about directional treads and the
>>>> effect of reversing them.
>>
>>> Okay I see what you were trying to say now.
>>
>>> OP should note that the Mutanoraptor comes in two versions. One is
>>> really a front-specific tire, with a tread pattern reminiscent of
>>> the old Panaracer Dart. It is a really special tire, imo, mainly
>>> because it is quite light for a big tire. I never fell for the
>>> Smoke/Dart combo, but this WTB tire I find extremely nice -- for a
>>> front tire. I would definitely find a different tread pattern for
>>> the drive tire. MotoRaptor for instance.
>>
>>> This message has been brought to you by WTB tires.
>>
>> two days and it's taken this long to identify tire tread, not just
>> air pressure? you guys evidently don't ride much.
>>
>> fwiw, continental vertical pro - best all-round mtb tire on the
>> market imo.
>
> I will never buy a Continental tire again. One too many exploded/
> unraveled sidewalls. Maybe the mtb tires are better. I'll never know.

Worst mtb tire I ever tried was Continental Explorer Pro or XL (something
like that). Squirrelly doesn't even begin to do it justice. Closest was
Specialized Team Control Yellow (?) Stripe -- softest sidewall known to
injured man.

As for road, I won't buy Michelin again, after my front tire (Pro Race 2)
blew out on a 40-mph downhill curve a year ago last Friday. Bead came out
of casing, causing tube to poke between and...POW! Broken scapula, torn
rotator cuff, cracked helmet core and numerous scrapes and bruises.

Bill "bad news brands" S.

[Chalo]

RobertH wrote:
>
> I will never buy a Continental tire again. One too many exploded/
> unraveled sidewalls. Maybe the mtb tires are better. I'll never know.

Huh. Here in Central Texas, I've had more crispy frayed sidewalls
than anyone could keep track of, and Conti brown sidewalls have held
up much better than normal tan sidewalls.

I think the only problem I ever had with a Continental tire sidewall
was a tear and resulting blowout from riding on railroad ballast.

Chalo

[RobertH]

On Jun 1, 1:38*pm, Chalo <chalo.col...@**********> wrote:
> RobertH wrote:
>
> > I will never buy a Continental tire again. One too many exploded/
> > unraveled sidewalls. Maybe the mtb tires are better. I'll never know.
>
> Huh. *Here in Central Texas, I've had more crispy frayed sidewalls
> than anyone could keep track of, and Conti brown sidewalls have held
> up much better than normal tan sidewalls.
>
> I think the only problem I ever had with a Continental tire sidewall
> was a tear and resulting blowout from riding on railroad ballast.
>
> Chalo

I dealt with a series of Contis with severely frayed and way-too-
easily torn sidewalls. This led to many tires becoming useless before
their time. There are lots of tires with sidewalls that hold up
through the life of the tread, and I'll be using those from now on.

[RobertH]

On Jun 1, 8:32*pm, jim beam <m...@************> wrote:

> so because you left your cheapo road tires out in the sun for 5 years,
> that makes all conti's expensive and robust mtb tires incapable of
> gripping on a mountain? *great logic.

If I ever feel the need to have my sidewall ripped open on a rock
while out in the middle of nowhere, I'll give those Conti mtb tires a
shot, thanks for the tip.

[RobertH]

On Jun 1, 9:49*pm, jim beam <m...@************> wrote:
> RobertH wrote:
> > On Jun 1, 1:38 pm, Chalo <chalo.col...@**********> wrote:
> >> RobertH wrote:
>
> >>> I will never buy a Continental tire again. One too many exploded/
> >>> unraveled sidewalls. Maybe the mtb tires are better. I'll never know.
> >> Huh. Here in Central Texas, I've had more crispy frayed sidewalls
> >> than anyone could keep track of, and Conti brown sidewalls have held
> >> up much better than normal tan sidewalls.
>
> >> I think the only problem I ever had with a Continental tire sidewall
> >> was a tear and resulting blowout from riding on railroad ballast.
>
> >> Chalo
>
> > I dealt with a series of Contis with severely frayed and way-too-
> > easily torn sidewalls. This led to many tires becoming useless before
> > their time. There are lots of tires with sidewalls that hold up
> > through the life of the tread, and I'll be using those from now on.
>
> how much traction do you miss when a tire sidewall "frays"?

You mean, by how much is the tire life shortened by a failed sidewall?
It varies a great deal. Comparing the Contis that failed prematurely
to the many other types of tires that retain their basic integrity
until the tread is worn down to the casing and beyond, probably about
3,000 miles difference on average.

Decades ago, Conti tires were famous for their durability. Sometime in
the 1990s, they started producing the flimsiest sidewalls in the
industry.

[someone]

On 2 June, 05:25, RobertH <r15...@********> wrote:
> On Jun 1, 9:49*pm, jim beam <m...@************> wrote:
>
>
>
> > RobertH wrote:
> > > On Jun 1, 1:38 pm, Chalo <chalo.col...@**********> wrote:
> > >> RobertH wrote:
>
> > >>> I will never buy a Continental tire again. One too many exploded/
> > >>> unraveled sidewalls. Maybe the mtb tires are better. I'll never know.
> > >> Huh. Here in Central Texas, I've had more crispy frayed sidewalls
> > >> than anyone could keep track of, and Conti brown sidewalls have held
> > >> up much better than normal tan sidewalls.
>
> > >> I think the only problem I ever had with a Continental tire sidewall
> > >> was a tear and resulting blowout from riding on railroad ballast.
>
> > >> Chalo
>
> > > I dealt with a series of Contis with severely frayed and way-too-
> > > easily torn sidewalls. This led to many tires becoming useless before
> > > their time. There are lots of tires with sidewalls that hold up
> > > through the life of the tread, and I'll be using those from now on.
>
> > how much traction do you miss when a tire sidewall "frays"?
>
> You mean, by how much is the tire life shortened by a failed sidewall?
> It varies a great deal. Comparing the Contis that failed prematurely
> to the many other types of tires that retain their basic integrity
> until the tread is worn down to the casing and beyond, probably about
> 3,000 miles difference on average.
>
> Decades ago, Conti tires were famous for their durability. Sometime in
> the 1990s, they started producing the flimsiest sidewalls in the
> industry.

And the tread section stiffer? This would account for concentrated
casing displacement leading to cord wear and early failure. Belted
tyres do this unless an external belt which will shred the tread.

[Chalo]

jim beam wrote:
>
> dude, if your sidewalls fail before the tread wears out, you're a fred
> and you're not riding enough. *

Conversely, if your treads wear through before the sidewalls go
crispy, you need more bikes!

Chalo

[RobertH]

On Jun 1, 10:51 pm, jim beam <m...@************> wrote:

> dude, if your sidewalls fail before the tread wears out, you're a fred
> and you're not riding enough.

...you forgot the third option, which is you're using Continental
tires.

I've never stored a bicycle outside, in the sun or otherwise, but I
ride most days for about five or six hours, so my bike is outside a
lot of the time in all conditions. Conti tires and some cheap Forte
tires are the only brands that I have had sidewalls fail prematurely,
the Contis so consistently and comically that I decided never to use
them again. They did provide some entertainment for myself and others
with their fraying in extreme fashions and even starting to look like
some insane wizard beard before ripping at the slightest provocation
and warping into grotesque shapes and becoming completely unusable at
about half their usable tread life.

Conti ain't what it used to be.