Mainly Newcastle (and Adelaide)

Geoff Harland wrote:
> After reading the "End of the line for Newcastle Station?" article in the
> Sept 2003 issue of "Railway Digest", I have the following observations:
>
> - Surely Auckland's experience is a good reason for *not* moving the central
> RS out of Newcastle's CBD?

Agreed... I haven't like the practice of moving stations away from the
centres they are supposed to be serving.

[snip]

> (And OTOH, Adelaide's North Terrace RS is
> close to Adelaide's CBD, and in particular to the Rundle St shopping
> precinct.)

In addition, there has been extensive development over the North Terrace
station.

Past SA state governments have been interested in having SG tracks put
in to North Terrace station but AN quoted about $10 million for the
trackwork.

>
> - If Newcastle's burghers really want to improve access between Newcastle's
> CBD and the Hunter River, why don't they consider developments in Perth,
> where sinking the tracks (between Perth's CBD and Northbridge) is apparently
> being contemplated? Although nearly all of the services using Perth's
> central RS are electric (with the exception of the Australind services
> to/from Bunbury (and occasional excursion trains to/from Hotham Valley?)),
> while Newcastle has a mix of electric and diesel services, Auckland's
> Britomart RS is an example of an underground RS with no electric services at
> all. (Hopefully Auckland's suburban routes will eventually be electrified,
> but present finger-pointing over who should pick up the tab for this means
> that it is unlikely that electrification is going to proceed in the near
> future.) (And Adelaide's North Terrace station is partially enclosed, but
> also has no electric services at present.)
>
> - From the article: "... It would not be sensible for Novocastrians to
> repeat the mistake made in Adelaide some years ago in moving their major
> railway terminal out of the City of Adelaide to Keswick some kilometers
> away. ..."
>
> My understanding is that North Terrace was, and still is, used for suburban
> services, while Keswick is used for inter-state services, and in years past,
> for intra-state services.

Exactly. North Terrace is used by all TransAdelaide train services and
was also used by the Barossa wine train.

The only BG services that used Keswick were the Overland and Blue Lake
to Mount Gambier. There were also SG services to Whyalla and Broken
Hill, in addition to the Ghan and the Indian Pacific.

>
> However, it would doubtless still be true that if no trains at all used
> North Terrace RS (and all services used Keswick instead), then patronage of
> Adelaide's suburban services, currently at pretty ordinary levels compared
> with the other leading state capitals, would be distinctly lower than at
> present.
>
> - Although CountryLink services stop at Broadmeadow, rather than at
> Newcastle's existing central RS, there are still frequent services between
> these stations. This has similarities with the situations in Brisbane,
> Perth, and Melbourne, in which there are frequent services linking Brisbane
> Central and Roma Street, Perth and East Perth, and Flinders Street and
> Spencer Street. (How many services, if any, were provided between North
> Terrace and Keswick, in the days of intra-state services in and out of
> Adelaide? While probably not the only reason for the demise of intra-state
> services, poor or non-existant servicing of Keswick by suburban services
> could well still have been one factor behind their demise.)

There never was or has been a track route from North Terrace station to
the Keswick interstate rail platforms (I'd love to know who was the
genius responsible for this) - BG access to Keswick interstate rail
terminal from the southern end was removed when the line to Melbourne
was converted to SG and BG access to the northern end of Keswick
interstate rail terminal has track in place but is "closed". To get from
Keswick station on the TransAdelaide network to the Keswick interstate
station, one has to go up a flight of stairs and walk several hundred
metres. (Even though a more direct route could easily be constructed).

>
> - As I suspect that Newcastle is still coming to terms with the near total
> withdrawl of BHP in 1999, why do they want to shoot themselves in the foot?
> Although removing the existing tracks to the central RS would free up some
> land which could subsequently be sold, and from then on be a source of
> ongoing income in the form of rates, removing rail access into the CBD is
> not a formula for increasing visitor numbers, or even sustaining existing
> levels. Sinking the existing tracks (and having to provide satisfactory
> ventilation and fume removal) would probably reduce any profit to be made
> from selling the land, but at least rail access into the CBD would be
> retained, while gaining more ratable land (and also "burying" the catenaries
> and stanchions underground, and thus out of sight).
>
> Has the idea of sinking the tracks in Newcastle ever been suggested by
> anyone else before?
>
> Regards,
> Geoff Harland
> g_harland at optusnet dot com dot au
>
>

Arthur.

PS, apparently the extra platform for Royal Adelaide Show access was a
success. However, TransAdelaide have been apparently been unable to fix
track to clear speed restrictions in recent months, claiming that they
receive only one third of the money they need for proper track maintenance.

Arthur Marsh wrote:
>
>
> The only BG services that used Keswick were the Overland and Blue Lake
> to Mount Gambier. There were also SG services to Whyalla and Broken
> Hill, in addition to the Ghan and the Indian Pacific.
>
>>

I have very fond memories (and photos) of a journey from Keswick
terminal to Peterborough (via Burra) on the evening broad gauge Bluebird
railcar (no 254) on 10th April 1985.

Chris Brownbill wrote:

> Arthur Marsh wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> The only BG services that used Keswick were the Overland and Blue Lake
>> to Mount Gambier. There were also SG services to Whyalla and Broken
>> Hill, in addition to the Ghan and the Indian Pacific.
>>
>>>
>
> I have very fond memories (and photos) of a journey from Keswick
> terminal to Peterborough (via Burra) on the evening broad gauge Bluebird
> railcar (no 254) on 10th April 1985.
>

I had forgotten that the Peterborough via Burra service continued after
the SG connection to Keswick terminal in 1980 - I took one return trip
to Burra on scheduled services, but in the days before Keswick terminal.

From memory, the scheduled Victor Harbor services stopped running just
before Keswick terminal opened.

Arthur.

Arthur Marsh wrote:

> I had forgotten that the Peterborough via Burra service continued after
> the SG connection to Keswick terminal in 1980 - I took one return trip
> to Burra on scheduled services, but in the days before Keswick terminal.
>
> From memory, the scheduled Victor Harbor services stopped running just
> before Keswick terminal opened.
>
> Arthur.
>

Australian Railway Routes 1854-2000 quotes opening of SG to Keswick as
18 May 1983. However I have a three AN public timetables from around
that time as follows:

1. 1/8/1981
2. Undated
3. 1/9/1984

No 1 shows services from Adelaide to Mount Gambier, Port Pirie,
Peterborough and Victor Harbor as well as Gladstone.

No 2 has the same, except the Gladstone service had gone.

No 3 had trains departing Adelaide terminal (Keswick), but Victor Harbor
had gone by then.

I'm not certain of the date of number 2, but it's between the dates of 1
and 3 because it does include the note "Until completion of the
Australian National Adelaide Terminal in 1984, passengers will be
conveyed by road buses Adelaide - Port Pirie - Adelaide.

So, based on this evidence, it is possible that Victor trains ran from
Keswick terminal.

Peter Berrett wrote:
> "Arthur Marsh" <arthur.marsh@internode.on.net> wrote in message
> news:3f5a8b27@yorrell.saard.net...
>
>>
> <snip>
>
>>There never was or has been a track route from North Terrace station to
>>the Keswick interstate rail platforms (I'd love to know who was the
>>genius responsible for this) - BG access to Keswick interstate rail
>>terminal from the southern end was removed when the line to Melbourne
>>was converted to SG and BG access to the northern end of Keswick
>>interstate rail terminal has track in place but is "closed". To get from
>>Keswick station on the TransAdelaide network to the Keswick interstate
>>station, one has to go up a flight of stairs and walk several hundred
>>metres. (Even though a more direct route could easily be constructed).
>>
>
>
> <snip>
>
> Kind of discrminatory for anyone in a wheelchair or with a pram don't you
> think?
>
> cheers Peter

One can get motor vehicle right to platform level (ie no stairs or
significant ramps) at the Keswick interstate rail terminal

but...

it gets worse. To cross Anzac Highway at the Richmond Road / Greenhill
Road intersection above Keswick Railway station, pedestrians (presumably
including people with wheelchairs or prams) are advised to "use the
underpass" - which has stairs.

Arthur.

Peter Berrett wrote:

>
> Perhaps then our rail system's profitability (sunk costs excluded) would
> significantly be boosted by rail extensions to:
>
> 5. Diversion of Frankston line to new station at Southland

You wouldn't even need to divert the line just build a new station - the
shopping centre carpark now extends right up to the railway line.

The real problem here is that shopping centre owners perceive railway
stations as a distinct negative, and discourage such initiatives. These
places are almost always deliberately sited away from railway lines.
The big shopping centres in Melbourne are at places like Chadstone,
Highpoint West, Northland, Southland, Fountain Gate (look at moi, look
at moi), Knox City, Forest Hill, Doncaster Shoppingtown, Altona Gate.
There is no way you could consider travel by train to any of these as a
serious option. Its that way by design. The only ones I can think of
that are anywhere near stations are Box Hill, Eastland, Melbourne
Central, Epping Plaza and Watergardens. Even then Watergardens has
actively turned its back on the station by enforcing a ridiculously long
walk.

We don't want to make it easy for any scary gangs of teenagers to get
there and lower the tone of our emporia. Everybody know that all
teenagers who travel by train are drug dealers, and anyone over 18 who
doesn't travel by car is on welfare and is obviously too poor to make a
profit from.

Chris Brownbill <chrisbrownbill@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message news:<3F63100F.2030401@optusnet.com.au>...
The only ones I can think of
> that are anywhere near stations are Box Hill, Eastland, Melbourne
> Central, Epping Plaza and Watergardens. Even then Watergardens has
> actively turned its back on the station by enforcing a ridiculously long
> walk.
>
The Glen is not too far a walk from Glen Waverley RS

Cheers

Rex K

That's true.

Rex Kingham wrote:
> Chris Brownbill <chrisbrownbill@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message news:<3F63100F.2030401@optusnet.com.au>...
> The only ones I can think of
>
>>that are anywhere near stations are Box Hill, Eastland, Melbourne
>>Central, Epping Plaza and Watergardens. Even then Watergardens has
>>actively turned its back on the station by enforcing a ridiculously long
>>walk.
>>
>
> The Glen is not too far a walk from Glen Waverley RS
>
> Cheers
>
> Rex K

There are a handful of large shopping centres that are incidentally
sited near railway lines or stations as pointed out here (albeit a
distinct minority of such centres). However apart from Box Hill and
Melbourne Central, I cant think of any instance in Melbourne where a
shopping centre (ie 'mall') has done the slightest thing to encourage
shoppers to travel by rail - not so much as a covered walkway - let
alone escalators, travelators etc that are provided to car parks.

R.M. O'Donnell wrote:
> Rex Kingham <rexkingham@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
> news:61219e67.0309140617.530d5bf5@c om...
>
>>Chris Brownbill <chrisbrownbill@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
>
> news:<3F63100F.2030401@optusnet.com.au>...
>
>> The only ones I can think of
>>
>>>that are anywhere near stations are Box Hill, Eastland, Melbourne
>>>Central, Epping Plaza and Watergardens. Even then Watergardens has
>>>actively turned its back on the station by enforcing a ridiculously long
>>>walk.
>>>
>>
>>The Glen is not too far a walk from Glen Waverley RS
>>
>>Cheers
>>
>>Rex K
>
>
> Greensborough also has a fair old shopping centre, one edge of which is
> almost at the rail station. Most other shopping areas at stations are
> rather more the traditional street strip type as is Greensborough partially.
>
> More Rail to Big Centres,
>
> RMOD
>
>