C-152 Leaseback: what's the scoop?

Gig 601Xl Builder wrote:
> gatt wrote:
>
>> Comments/experience?
>>
>> Thanks in advance!
>>
>> -c
>>
>
> Treat it as you would any other business deal. Run the numbers. Since
> you trust the guy running you can probably trust the estimated number of
> hours he gives you for hour/month.

Thanks. The good news there is that I can look through the schedule and
see for myself how many hours a month the present 152 flies. It's
averaging about 6 hours a day through the 21st at $68/hr.

>Keep in mind though that the price of fuel will have a direct effect
>on the number of hours the plane will be rented.

Yeah. Hasn't yet, but, it's a matter of time. On the flipside, a lot of
people are doing their primary training in the 172s based on
availability alone. Even one of those is averaging about 6 hours a day
at $98/hr wet. Higher fuel prices and increased availability might
shift some of that scheduling down to a less-expensive aircraft.

-c

"gatt" <gatt@livefromtheclocktower2008.us> wrote in message
news:20tb6c.2tq.19.1@integratelecom.com...
> Gig 601Xl Builder wrote:
>> gatt wrote:
>>
>>> Comments/experience?
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance!
>>>
>>> -c
>>>
>>
>> Treat it as you would any other business deal. Run the numbers. Since you
>> trust the guy running you can probably trust the estimated number of
>> hours he gives you for hour/month.
>
> Thanks. The good news there is that I can look through the schedule and
> see for myself how many hours a month the present 152 flies. It's
> averaging about 6 hours a day through the 21st at $68/hr.
>
> >Keep in mind though that the price of fuel will have a direct effect on
> >the number of hours the plane will be rented.
>
> Yeah. Hasn't yet, but, it's a matter of time. On the flipside, a lot of
> people are doing their primary training in the 172s based on availability
> alone. Even one of those is averaging about 6 hours a day at $98/hr wet.
> Higher fuel prices and increased availability might shift some of that
> scheduling down to a less-expensive aircraft.
>
> -c
>

Just as food for thought, a fully loaded C152 (which is rarely more than
student, instructor, and fuel) performs a lot like a fully loaded
C172--other than the fact that the CG will usually remain more nearly
centered in the C152. The result is that the C152 could make the transition
to actually operating as a licensed PIC a little easier. At least that is
what it was designed t do--and there are plenty of contributors here with a
lot more experience to comment on the success of that concept.

Peter

EridanMan wrote:

> All I can say is you need to prepare not only for the financial
> outlay, but the emotional/physical/attention outlay as well. For me,
> it was far more effort than it was ever worth.
>
> Consider yourself warned by a bitter fool;)

LOL! Thanks, Scott. Duly noted.

My goal is to be able to make money teaching in my own plane (leaseback
or not, whichever is the least expensive) instead of having somebody
else making the money off of my students. If it's too much of a
headache--your experience seems particularly relevant there--I'll find
some other side business, I guess.


-c

On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 23:18:45 +0000 (UTC), gatt
<gatt@livefromtheclocktower2008.us> wrote:

>EridanMan wrote:
>
>> All I can say is you need to prepare not only for the financial
>> outlay, but the emotional/physical/attention outlay as well. For me,
>> it was far more effort than it was ever worth.
>>
>> Consider yourself warned by a bitter fool;)
>
>LOL! Thanks, Scott. Duly noted.
>
>My goal is to be able to make money teaching in my own plane (leaseback
>or not, whichever is the least expensive) instead of having somebody
>else making the money off of my students. If it's too much of a
>headache--your experience seems particularly relevant there--I'll find
>some other side business, I guess.

Oops! You can't do this without a Part 135 certification/approval.
The catch is providing the plane that you instruct in.

You can get around this in a leaseback, but you have to let the
student and/or FBO schedule your plane -- you cannot be in the
scheduling loop, and you better get copies of the weekly/monthly
booking sheets in case you have to back up your non-involvement to the
FAA.

That said, leaseback can be safe and financially rewarding, but more
for a student of PP, not for an instructor, by cutting your cost of
plane ownership. With a leaseback, all the fixed costs of operation,
and all ther vaiable costs associated with rental use can be claimed
as expenses.

I did this for 14 years with a C172, and it worked out very well for
me.

But, as someone earlier said: 'TREAT IT LIKE A BUSINESS!"

"RST Engineering" <jim@rstengineering.com> wrote in
news:B9WdnVlnRNZpAerVnZ2dnUVZ_hCdnZ2d@supernews.co m:

> That's not true.
>


Yeah, I don't see what 135 has to do with instructing either, unless
they've changed something!
>
>
>
>>
>> Oops! You can't do this without a Part 135 certification/approval.
>> The catch is providing the plane that you instruct in.
>
>

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 05:35:38 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip <AA@AA.AA>
wrote:

>"RST Engineering" <jim@rstengineering.com> wrote in
>news:B9WdnVlnRNZpAerVnZ2dnUVZ_hCdnZ2d@supernews.c om:
>
>> That's not true.
>>
>
>
>Yeah, I don't see what 135 has to do with instructing either, unless
>they've changed something!

It doesn't having anything to do 'per se' with instructing. It has
everything to do with providing the plane in which the instruction is
being done.

>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Oops! You can't do this without a Part 135 certification/approval.
>>> The catch is providing the plane that you instruct in.
>>
>>

Scrooge McDuck <Scrooge.McDuck@disney.cam> wrote in
news:pjem74lr52t00k2mu5vh7kqau015vsaja1@********:

> On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 05:35:38 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip <AA@AA.AA>
> wrote:
>
>>"RST Engineering" <jim@rstengineering.com> wrote in
>>news:B9WdnVlnRNZpAerVnZ2dnUVZ_hCdnZ2d@supernews. com:
>>
>>> That's not true.
>>>
>>
>>
>>Yeah, I don't see what 135 has to do with instructing either, unless
>>they've changed something!
>
> It doesn't having anything to do 'per se' with instructing. It has
> everything to do with providing the plane in which the instruction is
> being done.

135 is for air taxi, pretty much end of story unless they've rewritten it
since I did it.


Bertie

"Bertie the Bunyip" <AA@AA.AA> wrote in message
news:g5fiqk$3ni$2@blackhelicopter.databasix.com...
> Scrooge McDuck <Scrooge.McDuck@disney.cam> wrote in
> news:pjem74lr52t00k2mu5vh7kqau015vsaja1@********:
>
>> On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 05:35:38 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip <AA@AA.AA>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"RST Engineering" <jim@rstengineering.com> wrote in
>>>news:B9WdnVlnRNZpAerVnZ2dnUVZ_hCdnZ2d@supernews .com:
>>>
>>>> That's not true.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Yeah, I don't see what 135 has to do with instructing either, unless
>>>they've changed something!
>>
>> It doesn't having anything to do 'per se' with instructing. It has
>> everything to do with providing the plane in which the instruction is
>> being done.
>
> 135 is for air taxi, pretty much end of story unless they've rewritten it
> since I did it.
>
>
> Bertie

Since you did what? Trip on your ****?

Scrooge McDuck wrote:
>
>
> It doesn't having anything to do 'per se' with instructing. It has
> everything to do with providing the plane in which the instruction is
> being done.


I know several flight schools who don't have 135 certificates.

NW_Pilot wrote:

> Gatt you been in my C-150M it runs and flys good since I am so busy I am
> concedering a leaseback if i can make some money or a sale

Yeah, that's a sweet little airplane.

Would Aero Maintenance do it? I can talk to Gorge Winds if you want but
I don't know if he's got room anymore. Marv's probably pretty stoked,
though; they were rolling P-2s and P-3 firebombing sorties out of there
all day, and guess who got to sell them fuel.

> I love this weak us dollar : )

If the media ever quits whining and howling about it, people will catch
on that now's the time to start investing. The rest of the world
figured it out but so many Americans seem to be mush-minded and
terrified of the economic cycle. (Most of the damage that happened to
the American economy happened when the dollar was strongest, such as the
housing and dot com bubbles.)


-c