Looking for an affordable 4-passenger aircraft

Without reading the other responses.. Piper Seneca II Turbo
most can be had with average radios for about $150K

What was your Navy Twin time in, and hopefully NOT centerline thrust.
BT

"Tailhook" <Tailhook.24c227@news.aviationbanter.com> wrote in message
news:Tailhook.24c227@news.aviationbanter.com...
>
> I'm an retired Navy pilot with lots of time (6000)--but nothing in the
> past 15 years--but my children are now moving all over the country and
> I'd like to get back into the air to visit them. I know little about
> the general aviation market or products but I'm partial to twin engines
> if only because they gives you an option when the weather deteriorates
> and so does one engine. I'm looking for the following:
>
> reliable and affordable--under $200K
> 4-passenger capability (real passengers--none of my kids are under 6')
> twin preferred--or logic why a single engine is not really an
> emergency
> range: 1000 NM
> speed: 160 KIAS +
> pressurized cabin (a preference but not a requirement)
> reasonable IFR package--but state of the art not needed
> Some idea of annual maintenance costs I need to be planning on
>
> What aircraft would you recommend I be looking into?
>
> Thanks from general aviation rookie with less than 50 hours of Cesnna
> 150 time from the 1960s.
>
>
> --
> Tailhook

Well it won't go quite that fast, and it's not pressurized, it's a
single, but it will carry 4 and it will go anywhere reliably, a Cessna
182 (or 182RG if you want the extra speed). Standard issue all american
airplane. Hard to beat. $100-$150 per hour.

In the Piper line, a Cherokee 235 Pathfinder or Cherokee 236 are the
ones. $100-150 per hour.

If you REALLY have to have pressurized and that sort of range, you are
above your budget because neither a Cessna 210P or a Piper Malibu have
that kind of range, though they come close (both are pressurized).
$150-200 per hour

Something like a Beech Baron 58P will do what you want, but believe me
it will COST to buy and COST to run. But it's pressuriized, a twin and
plenty fast. With long range tanks it might go 1000 NM, I dunno. If you
have the bucks, its the one to have. $200-250 per hour.

(The per hour figures are based on 200 hours a year and are rough
estimates).

Tailhook wrote:
> I'm an retired Navy pilot with lots of time (6000)--but nothing in the
> past 15 years--but my children are now moving all over the country and
> I'd like to get back into the air to visit them. I know little about
> the general aviation market or products but I'm partial to twin engines
> if only because they gives you an option when the weather deteriorates
> and so does one engine. I'm looking for the following:
>
> reliable and affordable--under $200K
> 4-passenger capability (real passengers--none of my kids are under 6')

Not doubting that you need this, but I think many buyers overestimate the need
for weight capacity, unless they have some experience in the GA environment and
know what their mission profile is. Many people find they make many trips by
themselves or with a single passenger. Just think critically about this
requirement, is all I'm saying.

> twin preferred--or logic why a single engine is not really an
> emergency

Look around on avweb.com and aopa.org and other places for statistics on
relative accident rates twins vs. singles. You might decide the difference is
not worth the huge bump in operating costs. There are times and places, of
course, where a twin has an obvious safety advantage.

> range: 1000 NM

I think it will open up the range of options consdirably if you are willing to
make two 500 nm hops.

> speed: 160 KIAS +
> pressurized cabin (a preference but not a requirement)

Given pressurized, I think any pressurized aircraft will meet the speed
requirement handily. As soon as you say 'pressurized', you are going way up the
scale toward the high-end, at least from my lowly point of view.

> reasonable IFR package--but state of the art not needed
> Some idea of annual maintenance costs I need to be planning on

$100-$200/hr overall operating costs (incl fuel) for a typical piston single,
probably toward the higher end since you have a large weight capacity
requirement, which drives you toward larger airplanes and bigger engines.

There's a lot of variability in operating costs from individual to individual,
and airplane to airplane, and year to year. Hard to predict. You need a flexible
budget. Multi-hundred dollar surprises are common, and multi-thousand dollar
surprises are not uncommon.

The above is for non-pressurized, pressurized is going to bump that even higher.
Don't have any experience with twins, but it will be still more, of course.

>
> What aircraft would you recommend I be looking into?
>
> Thanks from general aviation rookie with less than 50 hours of Cesnna
> 150 time from the 1960s.

Good luck with your search, and keep us in the loop!

Dave

Tailhook wrote:
>
> reliable and affordable--under $200K
Anytime you are talking about pressurized aircraft - and
multi engine you are talking more than $200K.

According to your performce requirements a Kingar 90 would
fit the bill but I don't think you can find one for $200k.

I wouldn't rule out single engine airplanes, there are
many that could meet your mission for a lot less cost than
a twin.

A pressurized twin is out of your price range. So is 160 KIAS at
cruising altitude. 1000 nm range will be iffy.

Assuming you really meant 160 KTAS at crusising altitude, the options
open up.

Starting bottom up in terms of operating cost, think Twin Comanche with
extended range tanks (tips or nacelle) and a Robertson kit. Typically
1400-1500 lbs useful load, about 100 gallons usable fuel (84 is
standard), and 160 KTAS at 7000-11000 ft on 15-16 gph total. Total
operating cost will be about $25K/year, all up (maintenance, fuel,
insurance, hangar, etc) and you can get a good one for $120K.

If you really need more load carrying, think Baron or C-310. Operating
cost goes up by 40% or so, payload goes up about the same, speed might
go up a few knots.

Michael

I rarely chime in on things like this, but 2 of my favorite planes fall
in this catagory.
First, for a single engine, my vote goes to the Bellanca SuperViking
Turbo. Speed over 200, Range over 750. Current price for at late 70's,
early 80's example is well under 90K.

Second, Twin engine, Aerostar 601P. Pressurized twin with over 230mph
speed and range over 1000. Nice ones can be had for under 200K.

Greg Piney


Tailhook wrote:
> Michael Wrote:
>
>>A pressurized twin is out of your price range. So is 160 KIAS at
>>cruising altitude. 1000 nm range will be iffy.
>>
>>Assuming you really meant 160 KTAS at crusising altitude, the options
>>open up.
>>
>>Starting bottom up in terms of operating cost, think Twin Comanche
>>with
>>extended range tanks (tips or nacelle) and a Robertson kit. Typically
>>1400-1500 lbs useful load, about 100 gallons usable fuel (84 is
>>standard), and 160 KTAS at 7000-11000 ft on 15-16 gph total. Total
>>operating cost will be about $25K/year, all up (maintenance, fuel,
>>insurance, hangar, etc) and you can get a good one for $120K.
>>
>>If you really need more load carrying, think Baron or C-310.
>>Operating
>>cost goes up by 40% or so, payload goes up about the same, speed might
>>go up a few knots.
>>
>>Michael
>
>
> Thanks, Michael. This helps. I'll check these out.
> Tailhook
>
>